Hello, I have a lot of questions about the beginnings of the frog, so I'll ask them here.

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason and this would be the main reason why Ub Iwerks parted company with Disney. However, Iwerks seems to have used a prototype of Flip in the Springtime cartoon (1929), and this somewhat calls into question this earlier assertion.

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

How to explain this complete turnaround on the part of Ub Iwerks?

Never heard the tale of Flip being a sidekick for Mickey before. I heard that Iwerks left due to him feeling he was being increasingly taken for granted within the Disney enterprise, plus Pat Powers pulling a Mintz in that he wanted to replicate Mickey's success by snatching the guy who drew him.

From watching Thunderbean's new Blu-ray, I heads that, while Iwerks was developing Springtime, the third Silly Symphony, he referred to the frog character as "Flip". The earliest Flip cartoons took place in a woodland community similar to those in those early Symphonies. The fourth Flip short Puddle Pranks gave him pants and shoes, plus a frog girlfriend, but the very next one, The Village Barber, was the subject that made Flip and his supporting players animals that lived and behaved like people.

I think I can answer these quickly

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Nothing more than an internet rumor. Walt was likely set on creating a Mouse star when he arrived back in Hollywood

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason

Just like above, this is just internet BS, there is no evidence to suggest this. Frogs in earlier cartoons serve as musical incidentals which don't suggest anything of a star

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

Not sure why you bring you the squirrel who only appears in FLYING FISTS and Flap when she only appears in PUDDLE PRANKS (but was used in the UK annual), Flip's animal girlfriend was usually a cat I recall. Incidental thinking again. Flips' evolution into more clothes and into a semi human was at MGM's request, and it wasn't far enough. In the Flip the Frog BD, you'll see in the bonuses a model sheet for a human Flip proposal that eventually became Willie Whopper

From watching Thunderbean's new Blu-ray, I heads that, while Iwerks was developing Springtime, the third Silly Symphony, he referred to the frog character as "Flip". The earliest Flip cartoons took place in a woodland community similar to those in those early Symphonies.

I remember reading that Flip was originally going to be named Tony the Frog. (But it might have been in The Encyclopedia of Animated Cartoons by Jeff Lenburg, which is not known for its accuracy.)

Never heard the tale of Flip being a sidekick for Mickey before. I heard that Iwerks left due to him feeling he was being increasingly taken for granted within the Disney enterprise, plus Pat Powers pulling a Mintz in that he wanted to replicate Mickey's success by snatching the guy who drew him.

From watching Thunderbean's new Blu-ray, I heads that, while Iwerks was developing Springtime, the third Silly Symphony, he referred to the frog character as "Flip". The earliest Flip cartoons took place in a woodland community similar to those in those early Symphonies. The fourth Flip short Puddle Pranks gave him pants and shoes, plus a frog girlfriend, but the very next one, The Village Barber, was the subject that made Flip and his supporting players animals that lived and behaved like people.

In fact, Flip's design began to change with Little Orphan Willie, his third cartoon.

[11:09:52 AM]

I think I can answer these quickly

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Nothing more than an internet rumor. Walt was likely set on creating a Mouse star when he arrived back in Hollywood

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason

Just like above, this is just internet BS, there is no evidence to suggest this. Frogs in earlier cartoons serve as musical incidentals which don't suggest anything of a star

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

Not sure why you bring you the squirrel who only appears in FLYING FISTS and Flap when she only appears in PUDDLE PRANKS (but was used in the UK annual), Flip's animal girlfriend was usually a cat I recall. Incidental thinking again. Flips' evolution into more clothes and into a semi human was at MGM's request, and it wasn't far enough. In the Flip the Frog BD, you'll see in the bonuses a model sheet for a human Flip proposal that eventually became Willie Whopper

Many thanks to you for answering all my questions.

Indeed, I forgot to mention that Iwerks finally opted for a cat as Flip's recurring girlfriend, although I don't understand why he made this choice, as I personally find the squirrel's design much cuter and more original than the cat's, but I suppose Iwerks must have removed this character because of her resemblance to Minnie Mouse...

And do you know why MGM wanted to humanize the character?

[11:45:25 AM]
By the way, does anyone know why Iwerks abandoned color in his cartoons?

I prove that color added a lot of charm to Flip's universe, especially as audiences were receptive to the use of this new technology. Iwerks missed a great opportunity to get ahead of Disney, and what's more, Flip would have been much more famous if his series had continued to use color.

Its easier when one puts questions all in one reply which makes easier for me to respond (and also to chop down the text when quoting something). But to answer

Why a cat? Cats are cute animals! Oswald's gal changed from Rabbit to Cat, probably to make sure she looked visually different from Oswald and still cute. Probably the same here (I doubt Iwerks ever considered this a process of creating new characters and rather making an existing one work)

Why did Flip evolve? Probably for "appeal"? This is a detail lost to time in my understanding, but my Flip set has yet to arrive and might have a better idea as to why. Again, many, many, many details as small as this are lost to time

Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

I hope this answers all your questions

Bonny, I've merged your multiple successive posts into one. Unless someone has immediately replied to your previous post, please try not to make multiple posts in a short span of time. Thanks.

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Its easier when one puts questions all in one reply which makes easier for me to respond (and also to chop down the text when quoting something). But to answer

Why a cat? Cats are cute animals! Oswald's gal changed from Rabbit to Cat, probably to make sure she looked visually different from Oswald and still cute. Probably the same here (I doubt Iwerks ever considered this a process of creating new characters and rather making an existing one work)

Why did Flip evolve? Probably for "appeal"? This is a detail lost to time in my understanding, but my Flip set has yet to arrive and might have a better idea as to why. Again, many, many, many details as small as this are lost to time

Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

I hope this answers all your questions

Once again, thank you so much for answering all my questions, and thank you also for this article on Walt Disney's opinion of color, you really seem to be an expert on the subject.

Personally, I think Iwerks had a lot of good ideas to help the Flip the Frog cartoons stand out from the others, so it's frustrating to see that MGM forced Iwerks to go backwards, especially as I'd much prefer Flip's first design as it's much more elegant than the later cartoons. Ironically, audiences rejected the series because of its lack of originality, prompting MGM to end Flip's career.

Bonny, I've merged your multiple successive posts into one. Unless someone has immediately replied to your previous post, please try not to make multiple posts in a short span of time. Thanks.

I'm sorry, the reason I posted several messages in a row was that I didn't understand how to quote several messages at the same time on this site, but now that I've figured it out, it won't happen again.

Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

And the reason that early widescreen processes like FoxGrandeur didn't catch on was because theaters had just replaced their projection equipment to accommodate sound. They weren't going to turn around and replace it again to accommodate widescreen, along with replacing their screens. (Though they probably didn't have to buy special screens from 20th Century Fox like they would have to do with Fox's "Miracle Mirror" screens in the 1950's.)