Bonny MacLaren
6 months ago
Hello, I have a lot of questions about the beginnings of the frog, so I'll ask them here.

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason and this would be the main reason why Ub Iwerks parted company with Disney. However, Iwerks seems to have used a prototype of Flip in the Springtime cartoon (1929), and this somewhat calls into question this earlier assertion.

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

How to explain this complete turnaround on the part of Ub Iwerks?
ToonStar95
6 months ago
Never heard the tale of Flip being a sidekick for Mickey before. I heard that Iwerks left due to him feeling he was being increasingly taken for granted within the Disney enterprise, plus Pat Powers pulling a Mintz in that he wanted to replicate Mickey's success by snatching the guy who drew him.

From watching Thunderbean's new Blu-ray, I heads that, while Iwerks was developing Springtime, the third Silly Symphony, he referred to the frog character as "Flip". The earliest Flip cartoons took place in a woodland community similar to those in those early Symphonies. The fourth Flip short Puddle Pranks gave him pants and shoes, plus a frog girlfriend, but the very next one, The Village Barber, was the subject that made Flip and his supporting players animals that lived and behaved like people.
S. C. MacPeter
6 months ago
I think I can answer these quickly

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



Nothing more than an internet rumor. Walt was likely set on creating a Mouse star when he arrived back in Hollywood

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



Just like above, this is just internet BS, there is no evidence to suggest this. Frogs in earlier cartoons serve as musical incidentals which don't suggest anything of a star

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



Not sure why you bring you the squirrel who only appears in FLYING FISTS and Flap when she only appears in PUDDLE PRANKS (but was used in the UK annual), Flip's animal girlfriend was usually a cat I recall. Incidental thinking again. Flips' evolution into more clothes and into a semi human was at MGM's request, and it wasn't far enough. In the Flip the Frog BD, you'll see in the bonuses a model sheet for a human Flip proposal that eventually became Willie Whopper
Bobby Bickert
6 months ago

From watching Thunderbean's new Blu-ray, I heads that, while Iwerks was developing Springtime, the third Silly Symphony, he referred to the frog character as "Flip". The earliest Flip cartoons took place in a woodland community similar to those in those early Symphonies.

Originally Posted by: ToonStar95 



I remember reading that Flip was originally going to be named Tony the Frog. (But it might have been in The Encyclopedia of Animated Cartoons by Jeff Lenburg, which is not known for its accuracy.)

Bonny MacLaren
6 months ago

Never heard the tale of Flip being a sidekick for Mickey before. I heard that Iwerks left due to him feeling he was being increasingly taken for granted within the Disney enterprise, plus Pat Powers pulling a Mintz in that he wanted to replicate Mickey's success by snatching the guy who drew him.

From watching Thunderbean's new Blu-ray, I heads that, while Iwerks was developing Springtime, the third Silly Symphony, he referred to the frog character as "Flip". The earliest Flip cartoons took place in a woodland community similar to those in those early Symphonies. The fourth Flip short Puddle Pranks gave him pants and shoes, plus a frog girlfriend, but the very next one, The Village Barber, was the subject that made Flip and his supporting players animals that lived and behaved like people.

Originally Posted by: ToonStar95 



In fact, Flip's design began to change with Little Orphan Willie, his third cartoon.

[11:09:52 AM]

I think I can answer these quickly

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



Nothing more than an internet rumor. Walt was likely set on creating a Mouse star when he arrived back in Hollywood

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



Just like above, this is just internet BS, there is no evidence to suggest this. Frogs in earlier cartoons serve as musical incidentals which don't suggest anything of a star

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



Not sure why you bring you the squirrel who only appears in FLYING FISTS and Flap when she only appears in PUDDLE PRANKS (but was used in the UK annual), Flip's animal girlfriend was usually a cat I recall. Incidental thinking again. Flips' evolution into more clothes and into a semi human was at MGM's request, and it wasn't far enough. In the Flip the Frog BD, you'll see in the bonuses a model sheet for a human Flip proposal that eventually became Willie Whopper

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



Many thanks to you for answering all my questions.

Indeed, I forgot to mention that Iwerks finally opted for a cat as Flip's recurring girlfriend, although I don't understand why he made this choice, as I personally find the squirrel's design much cuter and more original than the cat's, but I suppose Iwerks must have removed this character because of her resemblance to Minnie Mouse...

And do you know why MGM wanted to humanize the character?

[11:45:25 AM]
By the way, does anyone know why Iwerks abandoned color in his cartoons?

I prove that color added a lot of charm to Flip's universe, especially as audiences were receptive to the use of this new technology. Iwerks missed a great opportunity to get ahead of Disney, and what's more, Flip would have been much more famous if his series had continued to use color.
S. C. MacPeter
6 months ago
Its easier when one puts questions all in one reply which makes easier for me to respond (and also to chop down the text when quoting something). But to answer

Why a cat? Cats are cute animals! Oswald's gal changed from Rabbit to Cat, probably to make sure she looked visually different from Oswald and still cute. Probably the same here (I doubt Iwerks ever considered this a process of creating new characters and rather making an existing one work)

Why did Flip evolve? Probably for "appeal"? This is a detail lost to time in my understanding, but my Flip set has yet to arrive and might have a better idea as to why. Again, many, many, many details as small as this are lost to time

Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

I hope this answers all your questions

UserPostedImage
PopKorn Kat
6 months ago
Bonny, I've merged your multiple successive posts into one. Unless someone has immediately replied to your previous post, please try not to make multiple posts in a short span of time. Thanks.
Bonny MacLaren
6 months ago

Its easier when one puts questions all in one reply which makes easier for me to respond (and also to chop down the text when quoting something). But to answer

Why a cat? Cats are cute animals! Oswald's gal changed from Rabbit to Cat, probably to make sure she looked visually different from Oswald and still cute. Probably the same here (I doubt Iwerks ever considered this a process of creating new characters and rather making an existing one work)

Why did Flip evolve? Probably for "appeal"? This is a detail lost to time in my understanding, but my Flip set has yet to arrive and might have a better idea as to why. Again, many, many, many details as small as this are lost to time

Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

I hope this answers all your questions

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



Once again, thank you so much for answering all my questions, and thank you also for this article on Walt Disney's opinion of color, you really seem to be an expert on the subject.

Personally, I think Iwerks had a lot of good ideas to help the Flip the Frog cartoons stand out from the others, so it's frustrating to see that MGM forced Iwerks to go backwards, especially as I'd much prefer Flip's first design as it's much more elegant than the later cartoons. Ironically, audiences rejected the series because of its lack of originality, prompting MGM to end Flip's career.

Bonny, I've merged your multiple successive posts into one. Unless someone has immediately replied to your previous post, please try not to make multiple posts in a short span of time. Thanks.



I'm sorry, the reason I posted several messages in a row was that I didn't understand how to quote several messages at the same time on this site, but now that I've figured it out, it won't happen again.
Bobby Bickert
5 months ago

Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



And the reason that early widescreen processes like FoxGrandeur didn't catch on was because theaters had just replaced their projection equipment to accommodate sound. They weren't going to turn around and replace it again to accommodate widescreen, along with replacing their screens. (Though they probably didn't have to buy special screens from 20th Century Fox like they would have to do with Fox's "Miracle Mirror" screens in the 1950's.)

HectorJeckle
5 months ago
Since you seem to like Flip's first drawing, I'd like to share with you a very beautiful and rare model sheet drawn by Ub Iwerks.

UserPostedImage

I sincerely thank Steve Hulette for publishing it on this website: https://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/megacollectors-flip-frog.html?m=1 
Jimmy Two Shoes
4 months ago


Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

I hope this answers all your questions

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



In fact, Flip's first color films did well in the theaters where they were shown, and there was every indication that Iwerks' cartoons would have become popular if they had continued to be produced in color. Unfortunately, it was MGM who decided that the series would only be shown in black and white, on the pretext that a color series was too expensive to produce.

I don't think this backtracking is due to the fact that color was too early for cartoons, since Walt Disney ran into problems with his distributor when he wanted to put his Silly Symphonies in color, the only difference with Iwerks being that Disney managed to stand up to UA.
Farnitoon
4 months ago

Since you seem to like Flip's first drawing, I'd like to share with you a very beautiful and rare model sheet drawn by Ub Iwerks.

UserPostedImage

I sincerely thank Steve Hulette for publishing it on this website: https://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/megacollectors-flip-frog.html?m=1 

Originally Posted by: HectorJeckle 



This blog contains a lot of interesting information about Ub Iwerks, but it's a shame that there's one idiot who talks nonsense and takes the liberty of provoking others in the comments. Apart from this aggressive ignoramus, this blog seems to be a good site to learn more about Golden Age animation.
Farnitoon
4 months ago


Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

I hope this answers all your questions

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Jimmy Two Shoes 



In fact, Flip's first color films did well in the theaters where they were shown, and there was every indication that Iwerks' cartoons would have become popular if they had continued to be produced in color. Unfortunately, it was MGM who decided that the series would only be shown in black and white, on the pretext that a color series was too expensive to produce.

I don't think this backtracking is due to the fact that color was too early for cartoons, since Walt Disney ran into problems with his distributor when he wanted to put his Silly Symphonies in color, the only difference with Iwerks being that Disney managed to stand up to UA.

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



Ub Iwerks' cartoons couldn't have surpassed Walt Disney's in terms of popularity because, although Iwerks was a great artist, he clearly lacked Walt's genius in terms of storytelling and personality development, and you only have to watch Flip's cartoons to understand Iwerks' nullity in this area.

Flip himself is a fairly insignificant character, he has no personality and is completely forgettable, Flip is really just a pathetic imitation of Mickey and the cartoons featuring him are all pretty mediocre.

It's a real disappointment to see that someone who was able to produce some of animation's greatest masterpieces when he worked for Disney, produced totally mediocre cartoons when he became his own boss. Iwerks would certainly have been better off staying with Walt.
Jimmy Two Shoes
4 months ago


Why wasn't Flip entirely produced in color? Color was seen as just a novelty and not worth the extra cost before full range Technicolor. Harriscolor didn't help Flip stand out as much as Iwerks and Powers thought; they were too early in thinking current color technology was the next step in improving cartoons. Disney himself indirectly acknowledged that color wasn't ready in an April 1930 article I've included below

I hope this answers all your questions

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Farnitoon 



In fact, Flip's first color films did well in the theaters where they were shown, and there was every indication that Iwerks' cartoons would have become popular if they had continued to be produced in color. Unfortunately, it was MGM who decided that the series would only be shown in black and white, on the pretext that a color series was too expensive to produce.

I don't think this backtracking is due to the fact that color was too early for cartoons, since Walt Disney ran into problems with his distributor when he wanted to put his Silly Symphonies in color, the only difference with Iwerks being that Disney managed to stand up to UA.

Originally Posted by: Jimmy Two Shoes 



Ub Iwerks' cartoons couldn't have surpassed Walt Disney's in terms of popularity because, although Iwerks was a great artist, he clearly lacked Walt's genius in terms of storytelling and personality development, and you only have to watch Flip's cartoons to understand Iwerks' nullity in this area.

Flip himself is a fairly insignificant character, he has no personality and is completely forgettable, Flip is really just a pathetic imitation of Mickey and the cartoons featuring him are all pretty mediocre.

It's a real disappointment to see that someone who was able to produce some of animation's greatest masterpieces when he worked for Disney, produced totally mediocre cartoons when he became his own boss. Iwerks would certainly have been better off staying with Walt.

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



You're talking absolute nonsense, the many cartoons Ub Iwerks produced could rival Disney's without a problem, in fact after Grim Natwick arrived at Iwerks, Flip's cartoons became BETTER than Mickey's cartoons, it was only after Disney stole Natwick from Iwerks that the cartoons produced by the studio would be a little less good, even if for me, they all retained a certain charm notably thanks to their rubbery animations.
ArcLordOne
4 months ago

Hello, I have a lot of questions about the beginnings of the frog, so I'll ask them here.

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason and this would be the main reason why Ub Iwerks parted company with Disney. However, Iwerks seems to have used a prototype of Flip in the Springtime cartoon (1929), and this somewhat calls into question this earlier assertion.

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

How to explain this complete turnaround on the part of Ub Iwerks?

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 


Is there any particular reason you hate Disney so much? It's obvious you've never actually watched the Disney films, because you just echo the stereotypes about them.

You view them not by their value but rather by the axiom "They ain't that funny", as if that were the only way to judge a cartoon. Are Disnry cartoons the funniest? No. Are they still fantastic? Yes.

Flip cartoons are good but there's nothing going on underneath, like at Disney or WB.
PopKorn Kat
4 months ago
I've noticed an argumentative tone in some of the recent messages in this thread. Friendly reminder to please remain civil and calm while discussing these cartoons, even if you strongly disagree with what the other person has to say. Thank you.
Will Tragus
4 months ago

Hello, I have a lot of questions about the beginnings of the frog, so I'll ask them here.

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason and this would be the main reason why Ub Iwerks parted company with Disney. However, Iwerks seems to have used a prototype of Flip in the Springtime cartoon (1929), and this somewhat calls into question this earlier assertion.

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

How to explain this complete turnaround on the part of Ub Iwerks?

Originally Posted by: ArcLordOne 


Is there any particular reason you hate Disney so much? It's obvious you've never actually watched the Disney films, because you just echo the stereotypes about them.

You view them not by their value but rather by the axiom "They ain't that funny", as if that were the only way to judge a cartoon. Are Disnry cartoons the funniest? No. Are they still fantastic? Yes.

Flip cartoons are good but there's nothing going on underneath, like at Disney or WB.

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



I'm not sure what he said in his message that led you to the conclusion that he hated Disney Studios.

I think he's more concerned with the fact that MGM's decisions prevented Flip's cartoons from standing out from Mickey's cartoons as they did in his first two color cartoons.
ArcLordOne
4 months ago

Hello, I have a lot of questions about the beginnings of the frog, so I'll ask them here.

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason and this would be the main reason why Ub Iwerks parted company with Disney. However, Iwerks seems to have used a prototype of Flip in the Springtime cartoon (1929), and this somewhat calls into question this earlier assertion.

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

How to explain this complete turnaround on the part of Ub Iwerks?

Originally Posted by: Will Tragus 


Is there any particular reason you hate Disney so much? It's obvious you've never actually watched the Disney films, because you just echo the stereotypes about them.

You view them not by their value but rather by the axiom "They ain't that funny", as if that were the only way to judge a cartoon. Are Disnry cartoons the funniest? No. Are they still fantastic? Yes.

Flip cartoons are good but there's nothing going on underneath, like at Disney or WB.

Originally Posted by: ArcLordOne 



I'm not sure what he said in his message that led you to the conclusion that he hated Disney Studios.

I think he's more concerned with the fact that MGM's decisions prevented Flip's cartoons from standing out from Mickey's cartoons as they did in his first two color cartoons.

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 


He has said similar things on other threads, in response to me, a Diz fan.
Jimmy Two Shoes
4 months ago

Hello, I have a lot of questions about the beginnings of the frog, so I'll ask them here.

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason and this would be the main reason why Ub Iwerks parted company with Disney. However, Iwerks seems to have used a prototype of Flip in the Springtime cartoon (1929), and this somewhat calls into question this earlier assertion.

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

How to explain this complete turnaround on the part of Ub Iwerks?

Originally Posted by: ArcLordOne 


Is there any particular reason you hate Disney so much? It's obvious you've never actually watched the Disney films, because you just echo the stereotypes about them.

You view them not by their value but rather by the axiom "They ain't that funny", as if that were the only way to judge a cartoon. Are Disnry cartoons the funniest? No. Are they still fantastic? Yes.

Flip cartoons are good but there's nothing going on underneath, like at Disney or WB.

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 



You're wrong, humor is in fact the main criterion for rating the quality of a cartoon. A cartoon that contains beautiful visuals but isn't funny will be much less appreciated than one that contains a lot of humor, and for this reason, Tex Avery's MGM-produced cartoons and those of WB will remain infinitely more popular than Disney's.
ArcLordOne
4 months ago

Hello, I have a lot of questions about the beginnings of the frog, so I'll ask them here.

Firstly, I'd like to know if Ub Iwerks really created the character of Flip at the same time as Mickey when he and Disney were looking for a new character to replace Oswald. I've read this information on the internet but I haven't been able to find any sources that could confirm it.

Secondly, I've also read that Ub Iwerks wanted Flip to become Mickey's sidekick in his cartoons but that Walt Disney refused for some unknown reason and this would be the main reason why Ub Iwerks parted company with Disney. However, Iwerks seems to have used a prototype of Flip in the Springtime cartoon (1929), and this somewhat calls into question this earlier assertion.

The most interesting fact to note is that Flip The Frog's initial design was much closer to that of a real frog, and that his first cartoons were set in a completely different environment from that of any other cartoon character of the time, a setting that also closely resembled the Silly Symphonies. Unfortunately, by his third cartoon, Flip seems to want to conform and adopts a much more generic design with pants, gloves and shoes, and his squirrel girlfriend disappears in favor of a female Flip clone. Worse still, from his fifth cartoon onwards, Flip's world becomes totally urban, and Flip himself is transformed into an imitation of Mickey Mouse.

How to explain this complete turnaround on the part of Ub Iwerks?

Originally Posted by: Jimmy Two Shoes 


Is there any particular reason you hate Disney so much? It's obvious you've never actually watched the Disney films, because you just echo the stereotypes about them.

You view them not by their value but rather by the axiom "They ain't that funny", as if that were the only way to judge a cartoon. Are Disnry cartoons the funniest? No. Are they still fantastic? Yes.

Flip cartoons are good but there's nothing going on underneath, like at Disney or WB.

Originally Posted by: ArcLordOne 



You're wrong, humor is in fact the main criterion for rating the quality of a cartoon. A cartoon that contains beautiful visuals but isn't funny will be much less appreciated than one that contains a lot of humor, and for this reason, Tex Avery's MGM-produced cartoons and those of WB will remain infinitely more popular than Disney's.

Originally Posted by: Bonny MacLaren 


I say this with respect:

The point of animation is to bring to life what cannot be shown in live-action. Using the logic that cartoons should only be funny (as if Disney's films aren't funny, which I could name many off the top of my head that are hysterical) is essentially the same as saying all movies should be comedies. And there would be none of these studios' styles without him.

I used to think that his films were wimpy and girlish, not funny, etc because John K and the Clampett Cult said so. After watching them myself I was angry that I had been lied to, and amazed at how good they were. Have you actually watched them--at least closely?

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