Ian L.
  • Ian L.
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2022-05-04T13:42:08Z
Has anyone bought the Tom & Jerry releases on Amazon Prime? If so, are they any better than the earlier ones from 2013?

https://www.amazon.com/g...=atv_dp_season_select_s4 

It says they're in HD, which makes me wonder if they're part of the newly restored back from when the ill-fated Vol. 1 Blu-ray came out, or if they're from the HBO Max round of restore jobs. Anyone have any info on how good they look and if they're worth a purchase?
Kyroe
2022-05-05T07:57:11Z
Same as the T&J Golden Collections and HBO Max prints especially the stomach-hurling HD "restorations" from T&J Vol. 1 for certain shorts from Metrocolor. Saw "Sufferin' Cats!" and "The Milky Waif" in HD just to check, same GC Vol. 1 prints... "sigh"
Justin Delbert
2022-05-05T21:57:52Z
It's literaly both volumes of the Golden Collection which makes vol 2 exist in some form....just not Blu-ray. The only one I notice is not upgraded is The Little Runaway, but I think that could have changed since I last looked. Not sure.
Ian L.
  • Ian L.
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2022-05-05T22:27:59Z
I never had a huge problem with the transfers on the T&J Blu-ray so that's not a deal-breaker for me. I'm glad that even though the second Golden Collection is cancelled, that they got the cartoons out somehow.
Mesterius
2022-05-06T05:54:23Z
Originally Posted by: Justin Delbert 

It's literaly both volumes of the Golden Collection which makes vol 2 exist in some form....just not Blu-ray. The only one I notice is not upgraded is The Little Runaway, but I think that could have changed since I last looked. Not sure.



It doesn't make Volume 2 exist, it just makes the remasters that were intended for Volume 2 exist. Which we knew about from before Volume 2 was cancelled. Digitally released HD prints of the Tom and Jerry cartoons have been in circulation for many years.

However, the sad truth is that most of the HD restorations that were done for Volume 2 look absolutely terrible color-wise. They are NOT up to par with most of the Volume 1 restorations in any way. Classics like "Heavenly Puss" (below) are literally destroyed.

UserPostedImage

The post-Volume 1 HD prints that do look good are for the most part restorations that were done way before 2010, for various compilations like the Academy Awards DVD set. Plus, all the MGM Cinemascopes were HD-restored back in the mid-2000s. The new HD transfers done after Golden Collection Volume 1, though, are generally really off color-wise.
Roxen Trail
2022-05-06T17:26:55Z
Didn't "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" get remastered as well? It has been stated that the restoration work on all of the "Tom and Jerry" shorts are finished, so those two should be included in there as well.
Mesterius
2022-05-06T21:15:06Z
Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

Didn't "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" get remastered as well? It has been stated that the restoration work on all of the "Tom and Jerry" shorts are finished, so those two should be included in there as well.



Wait... are you seriously asking this? Of course they aren't included. Warner blacklisted those two shorts from release on a collectors-oriented Blu-ray and DVD set. They aren't just gonna throw them out on streaming.
Mesterius
2022-05-06T21:30:16Z
Originally Posted by: Justin Delbert 

The only one I notice is not upgraded is The Little Runaway, but I think that could have changed since I last looked. Not sure.



The cartoons that are only available to buy in SD are "Baby Butch" and "Pecos Pest" (Season 1), "Jerry and Jumbo" and "Pet Peeve" (Season 2) and "Busy Buddies", "Little Runaway", "That's My Pup" and "Neapolitan Mouse" (Season 3). Which makes little sense, as Warner definitely has HD prints for them ready. "Pet Peeve" and "Busy Buddies" have been HD-remastered for over fifteen years.

UserPostedImage


Roxen Trail
2022-05-07T02:22:03Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

Didn't "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" get remastered as well? It has been stated that the restoration work on all of the "Tom and Jerry" shorts are finished, so those two should be included in there as well.



Wait... are you seriously asking this? Of course they aren't included. Warner blacklisted those two shorts from release on a collectors-oriented Blu-ray and DVD set. They aren't just gonna throw them out on streaming.



No, no, no; you misread my question. I am asking if they're remastered, not if they're included in a release on streaming or on a collectors-oriented Blu-ray and DVD set.
Mesterius
2022-05-07T03:22:37Z
Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

Didn't "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" get remastered as well? It has been stated that the restoration work on all of the "Tom and Jerry" shorts are finished, so those two should be included in there as well.



Wait... are you seriously asking this? Of course they aren't included. Warner blacklisted those two shorts from release on a collectors-oriented Blu-ray and DVD set. They aren't just gonna throw them out on streaming.



No, no, no; you misread my question. I am asking if they're remastered, not if they're included in a release on streaming or on a collectors-oriented Blu-ray and DVD set.



Oh! Pardon my confusion; it was your wording "those two should be included in there as well" which threw me. But okay, you were referring back to your own first sentence, rather than to the thread topic about Amazon Prime... got it.

But yes, the two cartoons were remastered. Jerry Beck mentioned this online  in the spring of 2013, amidst all the calamities after Warner had announced Volume 2 without them.

If the following theory is true, Warner will probably never admit it. But I have a feeling Mouse Cleaning was actually restored for Golden Collection Volume 1; which I strongly suspect was originally slated to include the first 40 Tom and Jerry cartoons, not just the first 37. I know Jerry mentioned in 2011 when Volume 1 was announced  that Mouse Cleaning "is being restored at great expense" and "is planned for release on T&J Golden Collection volume 2". But think about it for a second. There's no chance in hell Warner would ever have let Volume 2 lead off with Mouse Cleaning, even if they had included it.

It makes much more sense that Mouse Cleaning was intended to be one of the last cartoons on Volume 1, but then Warner's upper management got cold feet, so WHV cut off the first volume at 37 cartoons and postponed the problem. Consider too that Volume 2 was obviously intended to come out in the fall of 2012, i.e. one year after Volume 1, which has been the norm for all of WHV's cartoon box sets. Instead, it wasn't announced until the Spring of 2013. Once more, Warner's top brass were clearly dragging their feet about whether to release Mouse Cleaning (and Casanova Cat) or not.
IrmaLaKnutsch
2022-05-07T07:30:22Z
(Hello, everyone. After years of passively reading along,
I have now registered to join the discussion)

I understand that these two cartoons are blacklisted.
But I just don't understand why it wasn't a problem
to have this one on the European "Classic Collection".
The "Classic Collection" was also published by WB
and is still available.

I just don't undetstand it, but of course I'm happy about it.







cartoon981002
2022-05-07T08:27:19Z
Roxen Trail
2022-05-07T15:07:15Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

Didn't "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" get remastered as well? It has been stated that the restoration work on all of the "Tom and Jerry" shorts are finished, so those two should be included in there as well.



Wait... are you seriously asking this? Of course they aren't included. Warner blacklisted those two shorts from release on a collectors-oriented Blu-ray and DVD set. They aren't just gonna throw them out on streaming.



No, no, no; you misread my question. I am asking if they're remastered, not if they're included in a release on streaming or on a collectors-oriented Blu-ray and DVD set.



Oh! Pardon my confusion; it was your wording "those two should be included in there as well" which threw me. But okay, you were referring back to your own first sentence, rather than to the thread topic about Amazon Prime... got it.

But yes, the two cartoons were remastered. Jerry Beck mentioned this online  in the spring of 2013, amidst all the calamities after Warner had announced Volume 2 without them.

If the following theory is true, Warner will probably never admit it. But I have a feeling Mouse Cleaning was actually restored for Golden Collection Volume 1; which I strongly suspect was originally slated to include the first 40 Tom and Jerry cartoons, not just the first 37. I know Jerry mentioned in 2011 when Volume 1 was announced  that Mouse Cleaning "is being restored at great expense" and "is planned for release on T&J Golden Collection volume 2". But think about it for a second. There's no chance in hell Warner would ever have let Volume 2 lead off with Mouse Cleaning, even if they had included it.

It makes much more sense that Mouse Cleaning was intended to be one of the last cartoons on Volume 1, but then Warner's upper management got cold feet, so WHV cut off the first volume at 37 cartoons and postponed the problem. Consider too that Volume 2 was obviously intended to come out in the fall of 2012, i.e. one year after Volume 1, which has been the norm for all of WHV's cartoon box sets. Instead, it wasn't announced until the Spring of 2013. Once more, Warner's top brass were clearly dragging their feet about whether to release Mouse Cleaning (and Casanova Cat) or not.



Thanks for the clarity and receipts, Mesterius!

Originally Posted by: cartoon981002 

🤭

UserPostedImage



WOAH! That looks amazing!

The fact that MeTV and WB ignored that is outright degrading, to say the least.
S. C. MacPeter
2022-05-07T15:12:20Z
“MeTV ignored that”

MeTV has no control over what masters they use. I thought you knew this before
Roxen Trail
2022-05-07T17:16:17Z
Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 

“MeTV ignored that”

MeTV has no control over what masters they use. I thought you knew this before



Again, you kind of overlooked the fact that, in my message, I mentioned WB; they didn't give MeTV this remastered copy.
Einhander
2022-05-07T17:32:56Z
Originally Posted by: IrmaLaKnutsch 

(Hello, everyone. After years of passively reading along,
I have now registered to join the discussion)

I understand that these two cartoons are blacklisted.
But I just don't understand why it wasn't a problem
to have this one on the European "Classic Collection".
The "Classic Collection" was also published by WB
and is still available.

I just don't undetstand it, but of course I'm happy about it.








It's just an issue with the American Warner Bros., Evidently previous rights holders over here didn't have any problem with those two shorts so this "ban" is a more recent thing as we've had MGM/UA VHS and Laserdisc releases with both intact. The worst part about this whole situation is that it ended up being hypocritical after all the disclaimers Warner put on their releases about how "presenting them as originally intended because ignoring them is bad" and that they have OK'd shorts for release with arguably worse racial depictions. But there's nothing we can do about it over here at this point, unless some miracle happens.

Also, welcome aboard.
SuperMuppet64
2022-05-07T18:39:45Z
Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

WOAH! That looks amazing!

The fact that MeTV and WB ignored that is outright degrading, to say the least.



image isnt loading for me but im 100% certain it's cartoon98100's own print and not something warner-sanctioned
tashlinfan44
2022-05-07T18:41:46Z
Originally Posted by: Roxen Trail 

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 

“MeTV ignored that”

MeTV has no control over what masters they use. I thought you knew this before



Again, you kind of overlooked the fact that, in my message, I mentioned WB; they didn't give MeTV this remastered copy.



This is actually a fan-made restoration. AFAIK, WB has yet to release their remaster of the short on any platform.
Mesterius
2022-05-07T20:13:21Z
Yeah, that's a fan-made restoration, done precisely BECAUSE Warner has no plans of releasing their HD remaster of Casanova Cat (or Mouse Cleaning) anywhere.

Considering how terrible the colors look in most of Warner's remasters of the 1949-54 T&J shorts, cartoon981002's restoration probably even looks better than Warner's official HD version.
Einhander
2022-05-07T20:36:09Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Yeah, that's a fan-made restoration, done precisely BECAUSE Warner has no plans of releasing their HD remaster of Casanova Cat (or Mouse Cleaning) anywhere.

Considering how terrible the colors look in most of Warner's remasters of the 1949-54 T&J shorts, cartoon981002's restoration probably even looks better than Warner's official HD version.


Weren't those restorations outsourced somewhere else? I seem to remember reading something about that.