List of Astra TV cartoons- Page 2 - Forum.
Tommy Stathes
2021-01-14T23:43:46Z
Originally Posted by: mannduke 

Originally Posted by: Tommy Stathes 

Screen Attractions is an older incarnation (1930s) of the same company as Astra/Cinepix. There were quite a few Mutt & Jeff and Charley cartoons in the package partly because the company was handling that material as far back as the late 20s and 30s, and didn't just dupe one or two random ones from other sources.

Also, I thought you would like to know that Astra's title for Bosko's Woodland Daze was actually Midsummer Day Dream. I'm not sure why it was corrected for the redrawn.



Alright, then!

Does the Astra TV print of Kiko's Cleaning Day use the title card design (used in the R&TP version), or you don't have that print in ur collection?



If I remember correctly, the print I have of "Spring Cleaning" has a title card that looks exactly like the one for A Fireman's Life. But there may be an Astra print with a title card that looks like the one you see in the redrawn. Hard to say, since they did change their own title cards on some of the same films in different printings. When you see the type of lettering in the title cards for Lumberjack, Sunken Treasure, Mr. Do-All and such, that's another classic Astra design. They just didn't copy a lot of the background details in the redrawns. Shocking.
OutOfOdor
2021-01-15T01:39:41Z
Once again, thanks for dropping in with your insight, Tommy.

Wait, the Astra print of "Bosko's Woodland Daze" is actually called "Midsummer Day Dream?" Huh. Maybe Ladd had access to a different version than the one you have which kept the original name, but that's entirely conjecture.

I'll admit, I wasn't kinda sure as to if "Love Bugs" was Astra or not. Was the "Kiko's Cleaning Day" cue ever used by Astra themselves, or was it just thrown in there and "Cinderella" by Ladd's editor?

About "Screen Attractions Corp."/Modern Film Sales - yes, I'm aware of their connection to Astra and Cinepix. Knowing they distributed redrawn Mutt and Jeffs to theaters in the 30s, makes total sense that they'd include a few of these in the package. Speaking of them, I noticed a few titles listed on your old, archived website as part of one of your Vintage Film DVDs, apparently Screen Attractions prints: "Slight Fantastic" and "Racing Fever" - were these later included in the Astra/Cinepix package, by any chance? I'm also kinda wondering the same about Mutt and Jeff in "Where am I?" The ending music heard in Ladd's version is also heard in a few Astra bootleg prints.

(Speaking of - I swear, there were two 30s redrawn version from Screen Attractions/Modern Film Sales of that short. The one that was included in Ray's set with the peppy 20s jazz in the background, and the version with the (horrid!) ad-libbed dialogue used as the basis for Ladd's 70s version.)

One thing I kinda wonder - are there cartoons that were included in both the Astra package and the Cinepix package?
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
2021-01-16T00:39:26Z
Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

Once again, thanks for dropping in with your insight, Tommy.

Wait, the Astra print of "Bosko's Woodland Daze" is actually called "Midsummer Day Dream?" Huh. Maybe Ladd had access to a different version than the one you have which kept the original name, but that's entirely conjecture.



You bet...and who knows. I wrote to Ladd once about some of these things, and the gist I got from him is that there were lots of small details that didn't matter in the long run and that he might not have remembered anymore.

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

I'll admit, I wasn't kinda sure as to if "Love Bugs" was Astra or not. Was the "Kiko's Cleaning Day" cue ever used by Astra themselves, or was it just thrown in there and "Cinderella" by Ladd's editor?



From the sounds of it, Love Bugs was probably an Astra print...but those cues were probably messed with by a R&TVP editor. I've never heard strange reuses of specific original film cues in title cards for other things in the older prints.

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

About "Screen Attractions Corp."/Modern Film Sales - yes, I'm aware of their connection to Astra and Cinepix. Knowing they distributed redrawn Mutt and Jeffs to theaters in the 30s, makes total sense that they'd include a few of these in the package. Speaking of them, I noticed a few titles listed on your old, archived website as part of one of your Vintage Film DVDs, apparently Screen Attractions prints: "Slight Fantastic" and "Racing Fever" - were these later included in the Astra/Cinepix package, by any chance? I'm also kinda wondering the same about Mutt and Jeff in "Where am I?" The ending music heard in Ladd's version is also heard in a few Astra bootleg prints.



If something was a Screen Attractions release, you can bet it was probably in the later TV packages. They were sticklers about keeping, reusing, and duping more and more things as time went on. The more the merrier. I think my Slight Fantastic is a pre-TV print but Racing Fever is a TV-era print. But in short, all of those Mutt & Jeffs were Astra offerings. No question about that.

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

(Speaking of - I swear, there were two 30s redrawn version from Screen Attractions/Modern Film Sales of that short. The one that was included in Ray's set with the peppy 20s jazz in the background, and the version with the (horrid!) ad-libbed dialogue used as the basis for Ladd's 70s version.)



There was probably only one version of the redrawn picture for these shorts in the 30s, but there were definitely multiple versions of the soundtracks. The tracks might date from different periods, not sure. I think I have two or three with dialogue, whereas those same films are commonly heard with different tracks, sans dialogue.

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

One thing I kinda wonder - are there cartoons that were included in both the Astra package and the Cinepix package?



Not sure if I didn't make this clear enough earlier, but Astra and Cinepix were virtually the same company...meaning most of the material overlapped. If the Cinepix moniker came after Astra or vice versa, this would only mean that more material kept being added to the overall package as time went on.

mannduke
2021-01-16T05:31:42Z
random playlist of astra tv stuff (playlist made by me)
https://www.youtube.com/...SolJL1pwFKVW8VYEJiUohdeM 
OutOfOdor
2021-01-16T19:28:54Z
Yeah, you did make it clear that Astra and Cinepix were the same outfit. So wouldn't be surprised if there exist prints of "Goats and Whiskers" and "A King's Christmas" with Astra titles instead of the Cinepix titles seen in your prints, heh. Morris Kleinerman and his people were some recyclers, heh.

Tom, do you think the "Cartoon Capers" TV package has any connection to Astra? I noticed the video you uploaded of one ("Hello Amigo"/"The Lady in Red") had one of Astra's stock end titles and the "A Fireman's Life" music - is that package later release of stock from the Astra/Cinepix archives with fresh new titles?

Ladd might not have even remembered little minute details about those prints? Huh.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
2021-01-16T21:15:13Z
Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

Yeah, you did make it clear that Astra and Cinepix were the same outfit. So wouldn't be surprised if there exist prints of "Goats and Whiskers" and "A King's Christmas" with Astra titles instead of the Cinepix titles seen in your prints, heh. Morris Kleinerman and his people were some recyclers, heh.

Tom, do you think the "Cartoon Capers" TV package has any connection to Astra? I noticed the video you uploaded of one ("Hello Amigo"/"The Lady in Red") had one of Astra's stock end titles and the "A Fireman's Life" music - is that package later release of stock from the Astra/Cinepix archives with fresh new titles?

Ladd might not have even remembered little minute details about those prints? Huh.



I think Cartoon Capers and a couple others like it are direct rehashings of Krazytoons, but I'm sure there must have been a relation to Astra. Or at least duping of each other. That end title card was rather common in the world of home movie making and being able to order/use premade titles for whatever you wanted.

Ladd might not have remembered these minor details because in the long run, these details didn't matter to business operations. I find them mildly interesting, but in a greater context, they really don't represent information that anyone except folks like us would give a second thought. Ladd may have liked animation, but he was a businessman of another generation. People simply didn't care too much about such things, and most still don't. It was a means to an end.

OutOfOdor
2021-01-24T14:32:49Z
I think I know approx. how many cartoons were in the Cinepix/Astra/Cinema-Vue package, thanks to the Yowp article I posted in the OP.

Seems they started out with about 100, c. Sept. 1955:
"Cinema-Vue Takes Cinepix Cartoons, 1-2 Reel Comedies
NEW YORK, Sept. 17—Cinema-Vue this week took over distribution of the 100 cartoons and 100 one and two-reel comedies that had been handled by Cinepix. It is expected that the Westerns, features and other product out of the latter’s vaults will later also go over to Cinema-Vue, making Cinepix inoperative as a separate entity.
Frank Smith, who had been running Cinepix, has moved over to the new firm as vice-president under his brother, Joe."

A follow-up story in Oct. 1955 says that they now had 150 cartoons on their package, and another article, in May 1956, reveals that they had expanded the library to about 350 B&W shorts, and that they acquired a bunch of "color" cartoons from Morris Kleinerman.
"Cinema-Vue’s New Batch Of 52 Color Cartoons
Cinema-Vue Corp, has acquired a new group of 52 color cartoons, which added to its backlog of 350 black-and-white subjects, brings its total animated library to 402 shorts. It had acquired 150 b-w's only a week earlier. All the films go into its "Whimseyland" package. Of the 52 new color subjects, 12 of which are "Mutt & Jeff" pix, a total of 40 were acquired from Morris Kleinerman..."

Dunno if this means that they had THAT many cartoons in the package, or not, or just generally refers to the amount of B&W stuff they had in their library at the time. A "Sponsor" magazine from Jan/April 1957 mentions 150 cartoons as being in the package...
Also, it seems their bootleg cartoon package put out by Astra/Cinepix had an actual name: "Whimseyland".
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
2021-01-24T17:37:28Z
When the prints turn up in their original packaging, they are in "Whimseyland Cartoon" boxes. I'm sure they were printing and sending out more than one or two hundred different subjects, as the articles suggest.
OutOfOdor
2021-01-24T20:03:21Z
Edited the OP with a number of names I found on an old eBay listing of Whimseyland/Astra prints preserved on Worthpoint:
https://www.worthpoint.c...on-huge-lot-14-498353982 
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
2021-01-24T20:42:20Z
That batch of prints is sitting just a few feet away from me as we speak. I'll say no more at this time!
OutOfOdor
2021-01-24T23:42:30Z
Originally Posted by: Tommy Stathes 

That batch of prints is sitting just a few feet away from me as we speak. I'll say no more at this time!


Congratulations, then! Reassuring to hear that group's in good hands.

"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
mannduke
2021-01-25T23:50:36Z
The Happy Kittens might be Merry Kittens (rainbow parade), im not really sure.
OutOfOdor
2021-01-26T00:32:08Z
Originally Posted by: mannduke 

The Happy Kittens might be Merry Kittens (rainbow parade), im not really sure.



I was thinkin' the same thing, but we might never know. Could be something like "Rough on Rats" for all we know.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
2021-01-28T03:19:34Z
You know, "Scare Crow and the Wolf" could be the Iwerks "Little Boy Blue", but that's a wild guess...
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
mannduke
2021-01-28T03:58:51Z
Some very poor Astra TV title recreations...


Here are some made by Diaz Bros. on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cVg7RDYJdI 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLgkHnove4c  (the worst one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKG5S3Tzle4  (the foot leader is wrong, and is from The Scared Rabbit)

...and here are some other ones.

https://drive.google.com...n1dqdRhPrqIryc9eAdp/view 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QgZKA4QYc4 
https://drive.google.com...E809GprHepDid1Oj7J2/view 
OutOfOdor
2021-02-01T00:13:30Z
https://youtu.be/JHXMF0M7-uc 
Added another cartoon to the list, this sailor cartoon from the Carpenter-Goldman studio. No "Astra TV presents..." title card is shown, but the title card background and hearing a few seconds of the typical Astra fanfare reveal that this was indeed part of the package.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
mannduke
2021-02-01T03:10:24Z
Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

https://youtu.be/JHXMF0M7-uc
Added another cartoon to the list, this sailor cartoon from the Carpenter-Goldman studio. No "Astra TV presents..." title card is shown, but the title card background and hearing a few seconds of the typical Astra fanfare reveal that this was indeed part of the package.



Finally another finding of an Astra TV print of a cartoon!
OutOfOdor
2021-02-01T03:43:45Z
Hey, my apologies if I did or said anything, Arthur.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
2021-02-01T20:13:36Z
Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

https://youtu.be/JHXMF0M7-uc
Added another cartoon to the list, this sailor cartoon from the Carpenter-Goldman studio. No "Astra TV presents..." title card is shown, but the title card background and hearing a few seconds of the typical Astra fanfare reveal that this was indeed part of the package.



Most of the Astra prints did not actually have their intro card printed in with the films. It was only included in relatively few of the prints.
mannduke
2021-02-14T10:26:52Z
Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 

UserPostedImage



where did you find that end card from? (like what cartoon?)