Tex Avery Volume 2 announced!!!!- Page 6 - Forum.
tashlinfan44
2021-01-04T05:16:18Z
Originally Posted by: nickramer 

I thought I heard Jerry said they will NOT do Volume 3 unless the real staff comes back.

Also, I'm pretty sure Jerry didn't oversee the proceedings of the DVD before release because he couldn't go to the Archive department due to a "little" thing called a pandemic.



You know…they could’ve just sent him a copy…but whatever.

If he really didn’t sign this disc off before it was sent to be manufactured, as he did with volume one, I wonder if that’s the reason that all these mistakes got through?
Mesterius
2021-01-04T10:52:46Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: nickramer 

I thought I heard Jerry said they will NOT do Volume 3 unless the real staff comes back.

Also, I'm pretty sure Jerry didn't oversee the proceedings of the DVD before release because he couldn't go to the Archive department due to a "little" thing called a pandemic.



You know…they could’ve just sent him a copy…but whatever.

If he really didn’t sign this disc off before it was sent to be manufactured, as he did with volume one, I wonder if that’s the reason that all these mistakes got through?



I'm pretty sure Jerry said (somewhere on Facebook) that he DID watch through all the Volume 2 prints before release, and he didn't notice any DVNR. Go figure.

And Nic... your snark doesn't even remotely make sense here. Why would Jerry need to go somewhere physically to watch through a digital remaster in 2020? Come on, dude.
raginggoodfella
2021-01-04T13:52:43Z
The moral of the fiasco/story is stop believing everything Jerry’s says or implies about WB cartoons. WB could have just released Tex Avery stuff like a PORKY PIG 101 set and be done with it. But they (WB humans) are trying to trick fans by telling us to please buy this and maybe will release the un-pc stuff because we(WB humans] need the money to restore the un-pc cartoons.
tashlinfan44
2021-01-04T14:01:57Z
Originally Posted by: raginggoodfella 

The moral of the fiasco/story is stop believing everything Jerry’s says or implies about WB cartoons. WB could have just released Tex Avery stuff like a PORKY PIG 101 set and be done with it. But they (WB humans) are trying to trick fans by telling us to please buy this and maybe will release the un-pc stuff because we(WB humans] need the money to restore the un-pc cartoons.



I agree with that first bit. If you look back, you'll realize that Jerry's word is often not reflective of the final situation (i.e Happy Go Nutty will be on Tex Vol 2, WAC announcing new animation titles at 2019 Comic Con, WB would re-restore the Tex cartoons that were on HBO Max, Warners would do more Superstars discs than what they actually did, etc.). This isn't his fault, BTW. He's just a consultant for WB after all.

I also fully agree with that last bit. The whole "BuY iT oR eLsE" thing has given me a fucking headache. If you can release nearly a 1/7th of the LT catalog in a newly restored state onto HBO Max in the middle of November with no warning, you do not need our support or money. If you restored Let It Be Me and Bingo Crosbyana in HD before Northwest Hounded Police even got touched, you don't need our support. The money is there. The fans are here. Releases will come. Discussion finito.

(Let's not forget that they do have a LOT they could just chuck onto Blu-Ray that's already restored...the LTs on MAX, T&J Volume 2 (even in a different form minus the 2 racist ones!), and according to Thad, a good chunk of the Happy Harmonies.)
Thad Komorowski
2021-01-04T14:25:24Z
The Photoshop titles need to stop though. It's a miscommunication/mandate that is literally just designed to piss everyone off when the actual cartoons often look stunning.
tashlinfan44
2021-01-04T14:32:16Z
Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

The Photoshop titles need to stop though. It's a miscommunication/mandate that is literally just designed to piss everyone off when the actual cartoons often look stunning.



Here's what I DON'T get about those. People say they were made so they could fit on widescreen TVs at 16:9 ratio. But the titles are in 4:3. And so are the cartoons. What is their purpose? Anyone?
Thad Komorowski
2021-01-04T14:59:37Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

The Photoshop titles need to stop though. It's a miscommunication/mandate that is literally just designed to piss everyone off when the actual cartoons often look stunning.



Here's what I DON'T get about those. People say they were made so they could fit on widescreen TVs at 16:9 ratio. But the titles are in 4:3. And so are the cartoons. What is their purpose? Anyone?



Because they get cropped depending on the TV's settings or a provider's whims (see MeTV), so they need to be "safe".
Mesterius
2021-01-04T15:01:23Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

The Photoshop titles need to stop though. It's a miscommunication/mandate that is literally just designed to piss everyone off when the actual cartoons often look stunning.



Here's what I DON'T get about those. People say they were made so they could fit on widescreen TVs at 16:9 ratio. But the titles are in 4:3. And so are the cartoons. What is their purpose? Anyone?



The point, as I understand it, is that the recreated titles can be CROPPED to widescreen without losing any of the text information. They added information on all four sides of the image for that purpose. So theoretically, the entire cartoons are ready to be (shudder!) cropped to 16:9 for streaming/tablets if Warner should want that.
tashlinfan44
2021-01-04T15:09:27Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

The Photoshop titles need to stop though. It's a miscommunication/mandate that is literally just designed to piss everyone off when the actual cartoons often look stunning.



Here's what I DON'T get about those. People say they were made so they could fit on widescreen TVs at 16:9 ratio. But the titles are in 4:3. And so are the cartoons. What is their purpose? Anyone?



The point, as I understand it, is that the recreated titles can be CROPPED to widescreen without losing any of the text information. They added information on all four sides of the image for that purpose. So theoretically, the entire cartoons are ready to be (shudder!) cropped to 16:9 for streaming/tablets if Warner should want that.



My gosh, those idiots. Sure, the titles will be safe, but the cartoons won't. Geez.
Mesterius
2021-01-04T15:14:15Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: raginggoodfella 

The moral of the fiasco/story is stop believing everything Jerry’s says or implies about WB cartoons. WB could have just released Tex Avery stuff like a PORKY PIG 101 set and be done with it. But they (WB humans) are trying to trick fans by telling us to please buy this and maybe will release the un-pc stuff because we(WB humans] need the money to restore the un-pc cartoons.



I agree with that first bit. If you look back, you'll realize that Jerry's word is often not reflective of the final situation (i.e Happy Go Nutty will be on Tex Vol 2, WAC announcing new animation titles at 2019 Comic Con, WB would re-restore the Tex cartoons that were on HBO Max, Warners would do more Superstars discs than what they actually did, etc.). This isn't his fault, BTW. He's just a consultant for WB after all.



To be fair, the reasons for SOME of this stuff not happening we know. Happy-Go-Nutty is not on Volume 2 because, once Covid hit, Jerry's own selection was dropped in favor of cartoons that had already been scanned for HBO Max. Likewise, it seems what Jerry actually meant when he said the HBO Max remasters needed to be redone for WAC was this:

Originally Posted by: Zachary 

What I got from Jerry's explanation on Stu's Show is that, because the Vol. 2 project was already underway when the lockdown hit, they were still obligated to finish it one way or another. And they actually had these versions re-done by the HBO Max restoration team repeatedly, as the initial versions (which we would've gotten if they had gone ahead and released this in June) were much worse.



So apparently, these were the best (!) improved versions they were able to get out of the HBO Max restoration team, even after several redos! Which makes me wonder: how on earth do many of the Looney Tunes cartoons on HBO Max (excluding the titles) look so flawless restoration-wise?
tashlinfan44
2021-01-04T15:36:12Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: raginggoodfella 

The moral of the fiasco/story is stop believing everything Jerry’s says or implies about WB cartoons. WB could have just released Tex Avery stuff like a PORKY PIG 101 set and be done with it. But they (WB humans) are trying to trick fans by telling us to please buy this and maybe will release the un-pc stuff because we(WB humans] need the money to restore the un-pc cartoons.



I agree with that first bit. If you look back, you'll realize that Jerry's word is often not reflective of the final situation (i.e Happy Go Nutty will be on Tex Vol 2, WAC announcing new animation titles at 2019 Comic Con, WB would re-restore the Tex cartoons that were on HBO Max, Warners would do more Superstars discs than what they actually did, etc.). This isn't his fault, BTW. He's just a consultant for WB after all.



To be fair, the reasons for SOME of this stuff not happening we know. Happy-Go-Nutty is not on Volume 2 because, once Covid hit, Jerry's own selection was dropped in favor of cartoons that had already been scanned for HBO Max. Likewise, it seems what Jerry actually meant when he said the HBO Max remasters needed to be redone for WAC was this:

Originally Posted by: Zachary 

What I got from Jerry's explanation on Stu's Show is that, because the Vol. 2 project was already underway when the lockdown hit, they were still obligated to finish it one way or another. And they actually had these versions re-done by the HBO Max restoration team repeatedly, as the initial versions (which we would've gotten if they had gone ahead and released this in June) were much worse.



So apparently, these were the best (!) improved versions they were able to get out of the HBO Max restoration team, even after several redos! Which makes me wonder: how on earth do many of the Looney Tunes cartoons on HBO Max (excluding the titles) look so flawless restoration-wise?



They aren't. They have film grain removed, film movement stopped (for lack of a better term), and they of course have the Photoshopped titles. These're the same issues with the Tex prints. perhaps time constraints made the team apply DVNR without going back and putting back the parts of the film that DVNR erase, which is what you do when applying DVNR,
Leviathan
2021-01-04T16:16:11Z
And people were dismissed/called crazy for trying to call attention to the Photoshopped titles too.

It's hard to raise awareness about issues when people are inclined to dismiss them as insignificant.
tashlinfan44
2021-01-04T16:17:58Z
Originally Posted by: Leviathan 

And people were dismissed/called crazy for trying to call attention to the Photoshopped titles too.

It's hard to raise awareness about issues when people are inclined to dismiss them as insignificant.



And sometimes, they ARE insignificant to an extent. We aren't necessarily complaining - we just want to raise awareness here. Get our message across. we don't want it to happen again. Simple as that.
Mesterius
2021-01-04T16:53:55Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: raginggoodfella 

The moral of the fiasco/story is stop believing everything Jerry’s says or implies about WB cartoons. WB could have just released Tex Avery stuff like a PORKY PIG 101 set and be done with it. But they (WB humans) are trying to trick fans by telling us to please buy this and maybe will release the un-pc stuff because we(WB humans] need the money to restore the un-pc cartoons.



I agree with that first bit. If you look back, you'll realize that Jerry's word is often not reflective of the final situation (i.e Happy Go Nutty will be on Tex Vol 2, WAC announcing new animation titles at 2019 Comic Con, WB would re-restore the Tex cartoons that were on HBO Max, Warners would do more Superstars discs than what they actually did, etc.). This isn't his fault, BTW. He's just a consultant for WB after all.



To be fair, the reasons for SOME of this stuff not happening we know. Happy-Go-Nutty is not on Volume 2 because, once Covid hit, Jerry's own selection was dropped in favor of cartoons that had already been scanned for HBO Max. Likewise, it seems what Jerry actually meant when he said the HBO Max remasters needed to be redone for WAC was this:

Originally Posted by: Zachary 

What I got from Jerry's explanation on Stu's Show is that, because the Vol. 2 project was already underway when the lockdown hit, they were still obligated to finish it one way or another. And they actually had these versions re-done by the HBO Max restoration team repeatedly, as the initial versions (which we would've gotten if they had gone ahead and released this in June) were much worse.



So apparently, these were the best (!) improved versions they were able to get out of the HBO Max restoration team, even after several redos! Which makes me wonder: how on earth do many of the Looney Tunes cartoons on HBO Max (excluding the titles) look so flawless restoration-wise?



They aren't. They have film grain removed, film movement stopped (for lack of a better term), and they of course have the Photoshopped titles. These're the same issues with the Tex prints. perhaps time constraints made the team apply DVNR without going back and putting back the parts of the film that DVNR erase, which is what you do when applying DVNR,



Ahh, right. I haven't watched them myself, just going by what people say online. But they do look better color-wise than the MGM remasters done for HBO Max, correct? I remember someone here (think it was Cool Cat) explaining that the auto cleanup Warner has used on many cartoons since 2012 simplify the color palette, which is why so many of the later Tom and Jerry restorations have terrible color.
tashlinfan44
2021-01-04T17:03:04Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: raginggoodfella 

The moral of the fiasco/story is stop believing everything Jerry’s says or implies about WB cartoons. WB could have just released Tex Avery stuff like a PORKY PIG 101 set and be done with it. But they (WB humans) are trying to trick fans by telling us to please buy this and maybe will release the un-pc stuff because we(WB humans] need the money to restore the un-pc cartoons.



I agree with that first bit. If you look back, you'll realize that Jerry's word is often not reflective of the final situation (i.e Happy Go Nutty will be on Tex Vol 2, WAC announcing new animation titles at 2019 Comic Con, WB would re-restore the Tex cartoons that were on HBO Max, Warners would do more Superstars discs than what they actually did, etc.). This isn't his fault, BTW. He's just a consultant for WB after all.



To be fair, the reasons for SOME of this stuff not happening we know. Happy-Go-Nutty is not on Volume 2 because, once Covid hit, Jerry's own selection was dropped in favor of cartoons that had already been scanned for HBO Max. Likewise, it seems what Jerry actually meant when he said the HBO Max remasters needed to be redone for WAC was this:

Originally Posted by: Zachary 

What I got from Jerry's explanation on Stu's Show is that, because the Vol. 2 project was already underway when the lockdown hit, they were still obligated to finish it one way or another. And they actually had these versions re-done by the HBO Max restoration team repeatedly, as the initial versions (which we would've gotten if they had gone ahead and released this in June) were much worse.



So apparently, these were the best (!) improved versions they were able to get out of the HBO Max restoration team, even after several redos! Which makes me wonder: how on earth do many of the Looney Tunes cartoons on HBO Max (excluding the titles) look so flawless restoration-wise?



They aren't. They have film grain removed, film movement stopped (for lack of a better term), and they of course have the Photoshopped titles. These're the same issues with the Tex prints. perhaps time constraints made the team apply DVNR without going back and putting back the parts of the film that DVNR erase, which is what you do when applying DVNR,



Ahh, right. I haven't watched them myself, just going by what people say online. But they do look better color-wise than the MGM remasters done for HBO Max, correct? I remember someone here (think it was Cool Cat) explaining that the auto cleanup Warner has used on many cartoons since 2012 simplify the color palette, which is why so many of the later Tom and Jerry restorations have terrible color.



Yes, the color on these is significantly better than older prints. I thought the reason for the bad prints was because they restored from the interpositives...
Mesterius
2021-01-04T17:37:29Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: raginggoodfella 

The moral of the fiasco/story is stop believing everything Jerry’s says or implies about WB cartoons. WB could have just released Tex Avery stuff like a PORKY PIG 101 set and be done with it. But they (WB humans) are trying to trick fans by telling us to please buy this and maybe will release the un-pc stuff because we(WB humans] need the money to restore the un-pc cartoons.



I agree with that first bit. If you look back, you'll realize that Jerry's word is often not reflective of the final situation (i.e Happy Go Nutty will be on Tex Vol 2, WAC announcing new animation titles at 2019 Comic Con, WB would re-restore the Tex cartoons that were on HBO Max, Warners would do more Superstars discs than what they actually did, etc.). This isn't his fault, BTW. He's just a consultant for WB after all.



To be fair, the reasons for SOME of this stuff not happening we know. Happy-Go-Nutty is not on Volume 2 because, once Covid hit, Jerry's own selection was dropped in favor of cartoons that had already been scanned for HBO Max. Likewise, it seems what Jerry actually meant when he said the HBO Max remasters needed to be redone for WAC was this:

Originally Posted by: Zachary 

What I got from Jerry's explanation on Stu's Show is that, because the Vol. 2 project was already underway when the lockdown hit, they were still obligated to finish it one way or another. And they actually had these versions re-done by the HBO Max restoration team repeatedly, as the initial versions (which we would've gotten if they had gone ahead and released this in June) were much worse.



So apparently, these were the best (!) improved versions they were able to get out of the HBO Max restoration team, even after several redos! Which makes me wonder: how on earth do many of the Looney Tunes cartoons on HBO Max (excluding the titles) look so flawless restoration-wise?



They aren't. They have film grain removed, film movement stopped (for lack of a better term), and they of course have the Photoshopped titles. These're the same issues with the Tex prints. perhaps time constraints made the team apply DVNR without going back and putting back the parts of the film that DVNR erase, which is what you do when applying DVNR,



Ahh, right. I haven't watched them myself, just going by what people say online. But they do look better color-wise than the MGM remasters done for HBO Max, correct? I remember someone here (think it was Cool Cat) explaining that the auto cleanup Warner has used on many cartoons since 2012 simplify the color palette, which is why so many of the later Tom and Jerry restorations have terrible color.



Yes, the color on these is significantly better than older prints. I thought the reason for the bad prints was because they restored from the interpositives...



Missing nitrates for the pre-53 MGM cartoons is certainly part of the reason why they're more problematic to restore. But it's not the main reason why the color looks bad in so many of Warner's MGM remasters. The reasons for that are 1) they don't always select the best second-generation prints to restore from (see Thad's review of Tom and Jerry Golden Collection Volume 1  for more on that) and 2) the auto cleanup tool described earlier, which led to virtually ALL the remasters done for the unreleased Tom and Jerry Golden Collection Volume 2 having pretty awful colors. The earlier restorations done for Tom and Jerry Vol. 1 (released 2011) have beautiful colors for the most part, despite being sourced from second-generation safety prints like the Volume 2 remasters.

One of the many annoyments regarding how people react to the criticism directed at Avery Vol. 2 is how they say, "But of course the colors don't always look good, the original nitrates were lost in a fire!" That has NOTHING to do with why the colors look bad in a number of cartoons on the new Tex Avery set. Rather, it has everything to do with Warner doing a sloppy job and not seeking out the best existing prints before restoring.
MTGM
2021-01-04T18:43:06Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

One of the many annoyments regarding how people react to the criticism directed at Avery Vol. 2 is how they say, "But of course the colors don't always look good, the original nitrates were lost in a fire!" That has NOTHING to do with why the colors look bad in a number of cartoons on the new Tex Avery set. Rather, it has everything to do with Warner doing a sloppy job and not seeking out the best existing prints before restoring.



That argument especially falls apart once you remember that these similar color issues affected several cartoons on the Looney Tunes Platinum Collection, the Looney Tunes Mouse Chronicles Collection, Tom and Jerry: The Gene Deitch Collection, and the Green Eggs and Ham and Other Stories Blu-ray. Tex 2 is likely another instance of similar color-flattening practices being employed (evidenced by a lot of the old Turner transfers having better color accuracy than these recent restorations).
PopKorn Kat
2021-01-05T04:14:50Z
We’re veering towards the topic of general WB restorations, as opposed to this set specifically. There’s another thread if you want to talk about WB restorations specifically.
tashlinfan44
2021-01-05T04:59:20Z
Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat 

We’re veering towards the topic of general WB restorations, as opposed to this set specifically. There’s another thread if you want to talk about WB restorations specifically.



Sorry ‘bout that. Getting back on topic...

I wonder why some of the weaker elements on cartoons were used as opposed to the elements that were used to make broadcast masters at the end of the century. I know it’s a stretch to assume these elements are still existing and available, but given the fact that a print that was used to sell to collectors in the 1980s is still around (and used for a cartoon on the set), I think it is safe to say that they would have some of those original elements used to make broadcast masters which would be, in the end, superior to what we see on this set.
nickramer
2021-01-05T15:24:30Z
Getting back more on topic, did anyone else view the Blu-Ray/DVD yet? I got the DVD, but I haven't watch it yet (nor Volume 1).