New Warners Restorations...- Page 4 - Forum.
WaltWiz1901
2020-06-03T04:50:19Z
Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

Have you noticed these have had the grain flattened out of them too? The color looks ok on HOT CROSS BUNNY (nothing like my IB Tech, I'm afraid, and with RABBIT EVERY MONDAY, there's clearly Fred Ladd level revisionism), for example, and the level of clarity is at the insane level of the Famous Popeyes where it looks as though you can lift the cels off. But I noticed not one bit of grain. Very disconcerting if they're pulling that Disney shit now.


What exactly do you mean by that, Thad?
Originally Posted by: Leviathan 

The Scooby Doo: Where Are You set and the Batman: The Animated Series set were pretty blatantly de-grained. Both were put out by WHV proper, not the WAC.

The Tex Avery cartoons will probably end up looking OK, since it's the WAC. But if the Bugs cartoons are part of the project Jerry is working on for WHV, uh oh.

Is it worth raising a stink now and try and get the attention of the right people? Or has that ship sailed?


The Batman set at least consisted of new restorations, was on twelve BD-50s, had slightly higher bitrates, and had lossless stereo audio as opposed to the Scooby-Doo set, which was on four BD-25s, had incredibly low bitrates, and featured lossy dual mono audio (as opposed to something along the lines of the lossless single mono soundtracks on the DFE Dr. Seuss discs from 2012). Scooby was restored in HD starting in 2003 for the DVD sets that came out the following year and 2007 (unfortunately, from what I've heard, the transfers were interlaced and consequently plagued with combing artifacts) and the unfiltered masters are available on Amazon Prime, but the Blu-ray transfers are severely filtered to compensate for approximately ten episodes each being compressed onto four single-layer discs.

I doubt Warner cares very much about quality control on their physical media titles anymore, but it may be worth a try...
Mesterius
2020-06-03T10:51:21Z
Originally Posted by: nickramer 

Honestly, I feel like some of you guys over-analyzing the restorations.



You always feel like that when someone is critical of Warner's restoration efforts.
Mesterius
2020-06-03T10:56:02Z
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 

The Batman set at least consisted of new restorations, was on twelve BD-50s, had slightly higher bitrates, and had lossless stereo audio as opposed to the Scooby-Doo set, which was on four BD-25s, had incredibly low bitrates, and featured lossy dual mono audio (as opposed to something along the lines of the lossless single mono soundtracks on the DFE Dr. Seuss discs from 2012). Scooby was restored in HD starting in 2003 for the DVD sets that came out the following year and 2007 (unfortunately, from what I've heard, the transfers were interlaced and consequently plagued with combing artifacts) and the unfiltered masters are available on Amazon Prime, but the Blu-ray transfers are severely filtered to compensate for approximately ten episodes each being compressed onto four single-layer discs.



Where are these details about Scooby from? Sounds strange. If they really restored the episodes in HD back in 2003 and 2007, then raw versions in progressive video quality should still exist. My impression was that the HD release on Amazon was a raw scan, whereas the release on Blu-ray was unfortunately filtered with DVNR.
Slowly I Turn
2020-06-03T14:07:34Z
Originally Posted by: nickramer 

Honestly, I feel like some of you guys over-analyzing the restorations.



I'm not the expert many are on here but I often wonder how much some people actually enjoy watching cartoons if they notice each imperfection. Sure, I would like them as perfect as possible but when I first saw these cartoons it was on a B&W 14" TV hooked up to a massive TV antenna outside my parents home. Pretty much anything is better than that. I'm glad I can just watch and enjoy.
Mesterius
2020-06-03T14:17:35Z
Originally Posted by: Slowly I Turn 

Originally Posted by: nickramer 

Honestly, I feel like some of you guys over-analyzing the restorations.



I'm not the expert many are on here but I often wonder how much some people actually enjoy watching cartoons if they notice each imperfection. Sure, I would like them as perfect as possible but when I first saw these cartoons it was on a B&W 14" TV hooked up to a massive TV antenna outside my parents home. Pretty much anything is better than that. I'm glad I can just watch and enjoy.



Generally when Warner does an HD restoration of a cartoon - good or bad - there's little chance of it getting another HD version in the future. So there's definitely good reason to gripe about even more remasters being done in sub-standard quality, after so many Tom and Jerry cartoons already becoming victims of this back in 2011-12.
FoxInAFix
2020-06-03T17:47:18Z
Originally Posted by: LaughingBoy 

Originally Posted by: Lee B 

According to this article,

https://www.thewrap.com/...ming-to-hbo-max-in-june/ 

There's more Popeye coming...
Popeye (Batch 2) (6/22), Season One

6/1
Looney Tunes: Back in Action, 2003

Looney Tunes (Batch 2) (6/22), Season One

Now, I have no idea if that Looney Tunes Batch 2 refers to "classic" Looney Tunes or the new stuff, but as you can see, they will be rolling out more of this content over the next few weeks.



No concrete information on this, but I can confirm that the beta version of the service contained not only all 15 restored Bugs shorts, but also plenty of Golden/Platinum collection shorts that don't seem to be on at launch. One would figure those are coming.

Also, now that the service has launched, here's the complete list of restored Bugs shorts:

Hold the Lion, Please
Jack Wabbit and the Beanstalk
What’s Cookin’ Doc?
Racketeer Rabbit
Hare Splitter
Hot-Crossed Bunny
Knights Must Fall
Rabbit Every Monday
Fair Haired Hare
Hare Lift
Upswept Hare
Robot Rabbit
Captain Hareblower
No Parking Hare
Half Fare Hare



Still no Fresh Hare, huh? That's remarkable.

(I'm new btw. Trying to be more active on forums on the topic of classic cartoons).
WaltWiz1901
2020-06-03T18:03:27Z
Originally Posted by: FoxInAFix 

Still no Fresh Hare, huh?


That short was restored sometime in the early 2010s (or late 2000s), but what it was remastered for remains unclear. There was a clip of it used in a Platinum Collection featurette.
2020-06-04T05:29:05Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Generally when Warner does an HD restoration of a cartoon - good or bad - there's little chance of it getting another HD version in the future.

I'm not sure of the batting average on this but I do think they revisit some cartoons depending on the occasion, such as for their HD presentation on feature film BDs. Slick Hare in particular looked and sounded different on BD than the Golden Collection version (which was from the HD era IIRC). The contrast boost was a bit too high I thought, but the soundtrack was much cleaner. They put some effort into it.
Mesterius
2020-06-04T08:35:41Z
Originally Posted by: Traveling Matt 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Generally when Warner does an HD restoration of a cartoon - good or bad - there's little chance of it getting another HD version in the future.

I'm not sure of the batting average on this but I do think they revisit some cartoons depending on the occasion, such as for their HD presentation on feature film BDs. Slick Hare in particular looked and sounded different on BD than the Golden Collection version (which was from the HD era IIRC). The contrast boost was a bit too high I thought, but the soundtrack was much cleaner. They put some effort into it.



It sounds strange to me that they'd do a new restoration of a cartoon for a feature film BD's special features. The few Tex Avery cartoons that got HD transfers for such bonus features were just raw scans. I'd guess Slick Hare was re-restored for its release on the third Platinum Collection, though it's interesting that they did a new transfer if the original restoration was also HD.

Still, there's been no sign that this will ever happen for the lesser-looking Tom and Jerry cartoons on that series' first Blu-ray set -- despite some of those off-looking restorations being done way back in the Spotlight Collection DVD days. Or for all the ones with muddy colors on the unreleased Volume 2 Blu-ray.
SuperMuppet64
2020-06-04T10:15:57Z
Originally Posted by: Slowly I Turn 

Originally Posted by: nickramer 

Honestly, I feel like some of you guys over-analyzing the restorations.



I'm not the expert many are on here but I often wonder how much some people actually enjoy watching cartoons if they notice each imperfection. Sure, I would like them as perfect as possible but when I first saw these cartoons it was on a B&W 14" TV hooked up to a massive TV antenna outside my parents home. Pretty much anything is better than that. I'm glad I can just watch and enjoy.



there's a line where gaffes start to become less forgivable. deliberately changing the colors just so the auto cleanup will play nice crosses it.
Mesterius
2020-06-04T12:39:50Z
Originally Posted by: SuperMuppet64 

Originally Posted by: Slowly I Turn 

Originally Posted by: nickramer 

Honestly, I feel like some of you guys over-analyzing the restorations.



I'm not the expert many are on here but I often wonder how much some people actually enjoy watching cartoons if they notice each imperfection. Sure, I would like them as perfect as possible but when I first saw these cartoons it was on a B&W 14" TV hooked up to a massive TV antenna outside my parents home. Pretty much anything is better than that. I'm glad I can just watch and enjoy.



there's a line where gaffes start to become less forgivable. deliberately changing the colors just so the auto cleanup will play nice crosses it.


UserPostedImage
fulano7
2020-06-04T18:27:48Z
The lower-budget, more washed-out approach in the WHV restorations may be encouraged by the fact that, unfortunately, the general public perceives grain as "dirt", not as an element of the original film.

I've already heard complaints that more grainy releases of animated films and shorts are "dirtier" than the (washed-out) Disney releases of the Diamond Collection, for example. In public's perception, the washed-out ones are "cleaner".

WarnerMedia annual revenue in 2019 has benn $33 billion. It's always fair to demand proper treatment on their IPs and on their releases that aren't offered for free.

Just to note, I disagreed with Jerry Beck's statement in Stu's Show that "some people believe that Warner has all money in the world". He said that's not how things work, WAC releases had to profit - no profit = cancellation etc. etc. I know what he meant. Strictly-profit policy is one thing, and I don't think it's wrong at all. But saying "we're strictly-profit" is different than saying "we don't have the money". Like many corporations, they indeed have a lot of money, and if they simply wanted to release vintage stuff (not worrying about profit) they could spend some money and it wouldn't make so much difference.
I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
Leviathan
2020-06-04T20:13:09Z
I'm really hoping that the MAX versions don't reflect how the shorts will look on video. The Popeye cartoons seem to be softer, less grainy and more washed out than how those same cartoons look on Blu Ray.

We won't know for sure until we see how Hare Splitter looks on the Romance on the High Seas blu-ray.
Mesterius
2020-06-04T20:48:44Z
Originally Posted by: Leviathan 

I'm really hoping that the MAX versions don't reflect how the shorts will look on video. The Popeye cartoons seem to be softer, less grainy and more washed out than how those same cartoons look on Blu Ray.



Isn't that often the case with streaming releases versus Blu-ray, though? Depending on the service, the SVOD releases are often more compressed in quality. For example, I've seen rips of some HD-released cartoons from iTunes and Amazon, and the Amazon versions had a lot more grain preserved.
Thad Komorowski
2020-06-06T15:45:48Z
It may indeed be advisable to wait until we see what we get with the hard media releases. But compression/encoding isn't going to change Yosemite Sam's cast iron stove to green, and it's rather hard to defend that level of revisionism.
Mesterius
2020-06-06T17:05:14Z
Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

It may indeed be advisable to wait until we see what we get with the hard media releases. But compression/encoding isn't going to change Yosemite Sam's cast iron stove to green, and it's rather hard to defend that level of revisionism.



Of course; those are two completely different problems. But it's interesting just how much grain and detail can disappear in lower-bitrate streaming releases, even if they're still HD.
Leviathan
2020-06-06T22:43:16Z
You gave the first Popeye blu-ray high marks even though the restorations of Puppet Love and We're On Our Way To Rio definitely didn't look like your nitrate prints.

UserPostedImage
Mesterius
2020-06-07T00:30:27Z
Originally Posted by: Leviathan 

You gave the first Popeye blu-ray high marks even though the restorations of Puppet Love and We're On Our Way To Rio definitely didn't look like your nitrate prints.

UserPostedImage



You're right. The color in the DVD screenshot at far right looks better than those nitrate prints.
Thad Komorowski
2020-06-07T02:38:19Z
Yes. It looks much better because they did the right timing from the neg - and it’s not radically different either. And those weren’t nitrate prints, “Rio” wasn’t mine, and “Puppet” doesn’t look like that projected - bad correction on Steve’s end there.
Leviathan
2020-06-07T14:34:48Z
I meant Technicolor prints. Please forgive me.

In any case. I hope the Max version of those Bugs shorts don't truly reflect what a Blu Ray would. Don't understand why they'd fumble Bugs Bunny but get it right for Popeye.
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