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WaltWiz1901
6 years ago
On the back cover of the second volume of the Tom and Jerry Spotlight Collection, I noticed that the note about the 16:9-enhanced CinemaScope cartoons is different on at least two versions of the set.

One version of the note, on one of the pictures on the set's packaging on this website, says:

Pet Peeve, Southbound Duckling, Tom and Chèrie, Muscle Beach Tom, Down Beat Bear, Mucho Mouse and Tot Watchers are presented in a "letterbox" widescreen format preserving the "Scope" aspect ratio of their original theatrical exhibitions. All except Pet Peeve and Southbound Duckling are enhanced for widescreen TVs.


However, the version I've seen pictures of just now on Blu-ray.com and I recently purchased on eBay has a different note:

Presented in a "letterbox" widescreen format preserving the "Scope" aspect ratio of their original theatrical exhibitions and some of the cartoons in this collection are enhanced for widescreen TVs.


I am aware that new copies of both discs inside this set had to be pressed because the original discs had edited shorts on them - is the note mentioning the names of specific shorts the one found on the original version of the set and the one without the names of any shorts the one on the unedited version of the set?
Mesterius
6 years ago
Regarding your first quote: you're saying it comes from the cover as seen on "this website", but the text doesn't include any link. Could you post the link please? (The link to the Blu-ray.com listing would be nice too -- I don't see anything when I search for Tom and Jerry Spotlight Collection there.)
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago
Mesterius
6 years ago

As for here.....here you go .

Likewise, here's the set's page on Blu-ray.com .

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



Oh, THAT's what you meant by "this website". 😛 Sorry, I was aware of this site listing cartoons for the longest time, but for some reason not aware (at least I don't think) of it also listing home video releases. So I thought you had forgotten to hyperlink the text. In any case, links are always appreciated. :)

Regarding blu-ray.com, I wonder why this set doesn't turn up when I use the site's search engine. Does it only work for actual Blu-ray listings? But if so, why are DVDs even listed there?
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago

As for here.....here you go .

Likewise, here's the set's page on Blu-ray.com .

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Oh, THAT's what you meant by "this website". 😛 Sorry, I was aware of this site listing cartoons for the longest time, but for some reason not aware (at least I don't think) of it also listing home video releases. So I thought you had forgotten to hyperlink the text. In any case, links are always appreciated. :)

Regarding blu-ray.com, I wonder why this set doesn't turn up when I use the site's search engine. Does it only work for actual Blu-ray listings? But if so, why are DVDs even listed there?

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 


Clicking 'DVD' or any of the other options above the search bar at the top of the screen will allow you to look up DVD/other home media listings on Blu-ray.com.

Getting back on topic, though, are the different notes on the shorts that are "enhanced for widescreen TVs" a way to tell an edited version and an unedited version of this particular volume apart? (Pet Peeve and Southbound Duckling, which are mentioned on one of these notes, aren't on volume two; they're on volume three)
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Mesterius
6 years ago
It does seem likely to me that the second version of the set is the one without the specific mention of Pet Peeve and Southbound Duckling, since these two films turned out not to be on the second volume at all. Sounds like the kind of mistake that would be very logical to correct for a second pressing.

What I find interesting is that, for whatever reason, these two cartoons are specifically singled out as not being "enhanced for widescreen TVs". As far as I know, "enhanced for widescreen TVs" in this context means, presented in anamorphic widescreen rather than pillarboxed widescreen. Perhaps this is the reason these cartoons were apparently pulled from Volume 2 at the last moment and instead ended up on Volume 3 -- where, from what I know, they were presented in proper anamorphic widescreen.

By the way, I'd imagine one simple way to find out if you have the first or second version is to check if the cartoons on your copy of the set are unedited or not.
+1
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago

It does seem likely to me that the second version of the set is the one without the specific mention of Pet Peeve and Southbound Duckling, since these two films turned out not to be on the second volume at all. Sounds like the kind of mistake that would be very logical to correct for a second pressing.

What I find interesting is that, for whatever reason, these two cartoons are specifically singled out as not being "enhanced for widescreen TVs". As far as I know, "enhanced for widescreen TVs" in this context means, presented in anamorphic widescreen rather than pillarboxed widescreen. Perhaps this is the reason these cartoons were apparently pulled from Volume 2 at the last moment and instead ended up on Volume 3 -- where, from what I know, they were presented in proper anamorphic widescreen.

By the way, I'd imagine one simple way to find out if you have the first or second version is to check if the cartoons on your copy of the set are unedited or not.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 


I ordered Volume Two - as well as Volume One - off of eBay on Saturday. The listing I settled on for the former had a picture of the back cover without the note about Pet Peeve and Southbound Duckling not being in anamorphic widescreen; I have a good feeling my copy will be unedited, but am not yet sure if this is definitely the case.
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago
Received the first two volumes today and had a listen to both The Lonesome Mouse and Nit-Witty Kitty on volume two.

(Un)surprisingly, (I think) my copy of volume two is edited; Mammy Two-Shoes' voice sounded more crisper than the rest of the soundtrack, indicating that it was redubbed. Looks like I have even more discs to replace....
Mesterius
6 years ago

Received the first two volumes today and had a listen to both The Lonesome Mouse and Nit-Witty Kitty on volume two.

(Un)surprisingly, (I think) my copy of volume two is edited; Mammy Two-Shoes' voice sounded more crisper than the rest of the soundtrack, indicating that it was redubbed. Looks like I have even more discs to replace....

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



Um... but the main question is not how crisp the voice sounds, but WHAT the voice sounds like. I mean, for all we know, Warner can have edited the original uncensored audio directly into the redubbed soundtracks when doing the replacement discs. Is it Mammy Two-Shoes' original voice actor or not?
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago

Received the first two volumes today and had a listen to both The Lonesome Mouse and Nit-Witty Kitty on volume two.

(Un)surprisingly, (I think) my copy of volume two is edited; Mammy Two-Shoes' voice sounded more crisper than the rest of the soundtrack, indicating that it was redubbed. Looks like I have even more discs to replace....

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Um... but the main question is not how crisp the voice sounds, but WHAT the voice sounds like. I mean, for all we know, Warner can have edited the original uncensored audio directly into the redubbed soundtracks when doing the replacement discs. Is it Mammy Two-Shoes' original voice actor or not?

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 


Not sure; I'll have to compare one of the shorts I listened to with one that is indeed unedited.....

.....which I recently did. Comparing the clip of Polka-Dot Puss seen in the introduction with the same scene in the actual short, her voice does sound the same to me. Is the audio during that part in the introduction from the unedited or edited version of the short? Have you heard both Lillian Randolph's version and the dubbed version to clarify?
Mesterius
6 years ago

Received the first two volumes today and had a listen to both The Lonesome Mouse and Nit-Witty Kitty on volume two.

(Un)surprisingly, (I think) my copy of volume two is edited; Mammy Two-Shoes' voice sounded more crisper than the rest of the soundtrack, indicating that it was redubbed. Looks like I have even more discs to replace....

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



Um... but the main question is not how crisp the voice sounds, but WHAT the voice sounds like. I mean, for all we know, Warner can have edited the original uncensored audio directly into the redubbed soundtracks when doing the replacement discs. Is it Mammy Two-Shoes' original voice actor or not?

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 


Not sure; I'll have to compare one of the shorts I listened to with one that is indeed unedited.....

.....which I recently did. Comparing the clip of Polka-Dot Puss seen in the introduction with the same scene in the actual short, her voice does sound the same to me. Is the audio during that part in the introduction from the unedited or edited version of the short? Have you heard both Lillian Randolph's version and the dubbed version to clarify?

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



Not sure I understand what you're saying here. You mean the Whoopi Goldberg introduction on Volume 2? Why do you assume the scene included there is "indeed unedited" when it's on the same DVD edition?

Not sure if I've heard the redubbed version of Polka Dot-Puss. Either way, I think you should search up other symptoms online for identifying the edited release of this DVD versus the unedited one (surely someone must have made a list). Don't jump to conclusions if you don't know if you're hearing the uncensored dialogue or not.
Mesterius
6 years ago
Found a 2005 comment on the Home Theater Forum  talking about the problems with the first version of this set. Relevant excerpt:

There is one cartoon on disc 1, "The Lonesome Mouse," and two cartoons on disc 2, "Saturday Evening Puss" and "Nit-Witty Kitty," where Mammy's voice is in a different acoustic from the rest of the cartoon, and her dialogue appears to have been re-recorded by someone imitating the original (but with perhaps a less exaggerated accent). Apparently these are the versions that were used on British T&J DVDs where all of Mammy's appearances were re-dubbed in this manner.



Interestingly, the comment doesn't mention "Polka-Dot Puss" at all. The three cartoons singled out as using redubbed audio tracks are "The Lonesome Mouse", "Saturday Evening Puss" and "Nit-Witty Kitty". Which makes me wonder: where have you heard that "Polka-Dot Puss" was presented in a redubbed version on the first edition of the set?

Anyway: I'm no expert on the redubbed versions of T&J, but could you check Mammy's dialogue in "Saturday Evening Puss" to see if she sounds like her usual self there? I'm specifically curious about whether she sounds like this .

+1
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago

Received the first two volumes today and had a listen to both The Lonesome Mouse and Nit-Witty Kitty on volume two.

(Un)surprisingly, (I think) my copy of volume two is edited; Mammy Two-Shoes' voice sounded more crisper than the rest of the soundtrack, indicating that it was redubbed. Looks like I have even more discs to replace....

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Um... but the main question is not how crisp the voice sounds, but WHAT the voice sounds like. I mean, for all we know, Warner can have edited the original uncensored audio directly into the redubbed soundtracks when doing the replacement discs. Is it Mammy Two-Shoes' original voice actor or not?

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 


Not sure; I'll have to compare one of the shorts I listened to with one that is indeed unedited.....

.....which I recently did. Comparing the clip of Polka-Dot Puss seen in the introduction with the same scene in the actual short, her voice does sound the same to me. Is the audio during that part in the introduction from the unedited or edited version of the short? Have you heard both Lillian Randolph's version and the dubbed version to clarify?

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Not sure I understand what you're saying here. You mean the Whoopi Goldberg introduction on Volume 2? Why do you assume the scene included there is "indeed unedited" when it's on the same DVD edition?

Not sure if I've heard the redubbed version of Polka Dot-Puss. Either way, I think you should search up other symptoms online for identifying the edited release of this DVD versus the unedited one (surely someone must have made a list). Don't jump to conclusions if you don't know if you're hearing the uncensored dialogue or not.

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 


Yes, I was referring to the Whoopi Goldberg introduction in my last post. As far as I'm concerned, the Polka-Dot Puss clip is the only time in her introduction that we hear Mammy speak - but I'm not sure if the actress we hear portraying her voice in that clip is either Randolph or June Foray (she redubbed Mammy's voice in the 1960s). Can you clarify if it's really the former by comparing that clip with the redubbed version of Polka-Dot Puss (I'm sure it's somewhere online)?
Mark The Shark
6 years ago
Speaking of Lillian Randolph...she was a spokeswoman in Chicago-area commercials for First Metropolitan Builders in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Their phone number was 252-1155. Later they changed their number to 282-8600. (Why do I remember the actual phone numbers?) The phone number in her commercials were redubbed by another woman, obviously a completely different voice. I just find it interesting that Lillian Randolph's voice ended up being redubbed again. Here is a commercial -- I think this must be a later one as I don't think it's redubbed.

Mesterius
6 years ago
WaltWiz1901: I see you've noticed my latest comment above, so I'll just wait for a reply to that. 😉
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago

Found a 2005 comment on the Home Theater Forum  talking about the problems with the first version of this set. Relevant excerpt:

There is one cartoon on disc 1, "The Lonesome Mouse," and two cartoons on disc 2, "Saturday Evening Puss" and "Nit-Witty Kitty," where Mammy's voice is in a different acoustic from the rest of the cartoon, and her dialogue appears to have been re-recorded by someone imitating the original (but with perhaps a less exaggerated accent). Apparently these are the versions that were used on British T&J DVDs where all of Mammy's appearances were re-dubbed in this manner.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Interestingly, the comment doesn't mention "Polka-Dot Puss" at all. The three cartoons singled out as using redubbed audio tracks are "The Lonesome Mouse", "Saturday Evening Puss" and "Nit-Witty Kitty". Which makes me wonder: where have you heard that "Polka-Dot Puss" was presented in a redubbed version on the first edition of the set?

Anyway: I'm no expert on the redubbed versions of T&J, but could you check Mammy's dialogue in "Saturday Evening Puss" to see if she sounds like her usual self there? I'm specifically curious about whether she sounds like this .


I usually don't use YouTube very often now, but this discussion was enough for me to have a listen to the video you linked. (I should also add that that video was time-compressed, making it even harder for me to decipher whether the voice in my copy was legit or not because of the higher pitch)

No, the dialogue in my copy isn't Foray's voice, but I'm still not sure if it's either Randolph or the "acoustically different voice" the Home Theater Forum mentioned.
Mesterius
6 years ago

Found a 2005 comment on the Home Theater Forum  talking about the problems with the first version of this set. Relevant excerpt:

There is one cartoon on disc 1, "The Lonesome Mouse," and two cartoons on disc 2, "Saturday Evening Puss" and "Nit-Witty Kitty," where Mammy's voice is in a different acoustic from the rest of the cartoon, and her dialogue appears to have been re-recorded by someone imitating the original (but with perhaps a less exaggerated accent). Apparently these are the versions that were used on British T&J DVDs where all of Mammy's appearances were re-dubbed in this manner.

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



Interestingly, the comment doesn't mention "Polka-Dot Puss" at all. The three cartoons singled out as using redubbed audio tracks are "The Lonesome Mouse", "Saturday Evening Puss" and "Nit-Witty Kitty". Which makes me wonder: where have you heard that "Polka-Dot Puss" was presented in a redubbed version on the first edition of the set?

Anyway: I'm no expert on the redubbed versions of T&J, but could you check Mammy's dialogue in "Saturday Evening Puss" to see if she sounds like her usual self there? I'm specifically curious about whether she sounds like this .

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 


I usually don't use YouTube very often now, but this discussion was enough for me to have a listen to the video you linked. (I should also add that that video was time-compressed, making it even harder for me to decipher whether the voice in my copy was legit or not because of the higher pitch)

No, the dialogue in my copy isn't Foray's voice, but I'm still not sure if it's either Randolph or the "acoustically different voice" the Home Theater Forum mentioned.



That time-compression you mention just sounds like PAL speed-up to me. I checked a copy of "Saturday Evening Puss" that I know is uncensored - and is in NTSC tempo - and except for the speedup, it sounds exactly like the original version starring Lillian Randolph  as seen in the video. If the version on your DVD set sounds the same except for the slight speed-up, I'd say you have the uncensored version of the set.
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago
After listening to the ("PAL speedup-ed") clip of the original Saturday Evening Puss on YouTube and comparing it to the audio that's on the set, I can confirm that I do indeed have the original version of the set. Just as I suspected earlier, the Spotlight Collection voice sounded crisper than the rest of the audio, and the actual voice sounded a bit different than the one that's on my copy.

(Sure is amusing to believe we would go from discussing whether or not a blurb on the back of a DVD cover was a clue that I had a specific version of that DVD to discussing a much less trivial issue, isn't it?)
Mesterius
6 years ago

After listening to the ("PAL speedup-ed") clip of the original Saturday Evening Puss on YouTube and comparing it to the audio that's on the set, I can confirm that I do indeed have the original version of the set. Just as I suspected earlier, the Spotlight Collection voice sounded crisper than the rest of the audio, and the actual voice sounded a bit different than the one that's on my copy.

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



You mean to say you have the first released edition of the set? With the redubbed audio?

How exactly does the voice sound different? Different accent? Different wording?

Also, the example you mentioned which you felt had a "crisper" voice earlier was "Polka-Dot Pussy". From what I understand, that film was never released in a redubbed version on even the first edition of Spotlight Collection Vol. 2. I'm still curious whether you heard anywhere that it was released with redubbed sound on the set, or if you assumed it simply because it's one of the many Tom and Jerry films which did get a redub at one point in time?

EDIT: Hey, wait... this old review from the Golden Age Cartoons website  actually includes "Polka-Dot Puss" in its list of cartoons with redubbed dialogue. That's curious because all mentions I've found of the redubs on other sites/forums so far only lists the three other films. The review also says that the redubbed versions in question "were produced for Cartoon Network in the 1990s". So if that's correct, obviously not connected to the 60s June Foray redub as I had wondered before. (I shouldn't be surprised, since that redub was done for a re-animation with a completely different character than Mammy.)
+1
WaltWiz1901
6 years ago

You mean to say you have the first released edition of the set? With the redubbed audio?

How exactly does the voice sound different? Different accent? Different wording?

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 


Yes; from comparing two versions of the same audio a while ago, the one that was on my copy of the set was slightly different from - and sounded more clearer than - the one that I heard on YouTube at the same time.

The difference between Randolph's voice and the redub that's on DVD is hardly noticeable; the latter is a very convincing facsimile of the former.
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