fulano7
  • fulano7
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2021-06-17T20:40:33Z
Sony has just detailed the bonuses of Columbia Classics vol. 2, and the set will include a bonus blu-ray with 20 shorts from the studio. Among Three Stooges, Charley Chase and Hotel Transylvania, there will be 2 Color Rhapsodies and 10 UPA cartoons:

The Little Match Girl (1937) (Color Rhapsody)
Dog, Cat and Canary (1945) (Color Rhapsody)
Ragtime Bear (1949) (Jolly Frolics/Magoo)
The Wonder Gloves (1951) (Jolly Frolics)
Georgie and the Dragon (1951) (Jolly Frolics)
Madeline (1952) (Jolly Frolics)
Pete Hothead (1952)
The Tell-Tale Heart (1953)
When Magoo Flew (1954) (Magoo)
The Man on the Flying Trapeze (1954)
Christopher Crumpet’s Playmate (1955)
Stage Door Magoo (1955) (Magoo)

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=28733 

Street date is sep 14.
I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
Toonatic
2021-06-17T21:21:40Z
This was such fantastic news!

Columbia needs to keep this up for future collections. 🙂
PopKorn Kat
2021-06-18T01:03:13Z
The UPA shorts seem specifically selected, since they're all well-known titles or feature Mr. Magoo. Kinda surprised they didn't pick "Gerald McBoing Boing". You'd think Sony would be flaunting their Oscar-winning stuff more often.

As for the Screen Gems short, "The Little Match Girl" is a good choice, but the other short - a Flippy - seems like it was randomly selected. Why not a Fox & Crow short, or even a Scrappy?

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for any Screen Gems acknowledgement. TCM's Jolly Frolics set was already top-notch when it came to restoration, so that I'm less excited for. Now we play the waiting game.
fulano7
  • fulano7
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2021-06-18T01:41:14Z
The Lawrence of Arabia transfer in volume 1 has been extensively praised. A reviewer even wrote that that movie alone justified buying the whole set, regardless of the other titles. Quite an overstatement after you look at the price of the set, but Lawrence looks really good.

When I first saw vol. 1, I thought to myself "It's such a pity that they'll never give such treatment to the cartoons". Well, here we are now: The Little Match Girl in 1080p, restored from the negatives, and I hope they don't mess up digitally and deliver something as good as, or better than the Thunderbean scans. Sony has a good track record in restorations.

The best scenario would be if they released the cartoons comprehensively, on demand, or license them to a boutique label. I don't have insider info but I wonder if there are many HD Screen Gems restorations sitting in the vault - the UPA catalog is already done. The Three Stooges shorts are also a missed opportunity and should've been released back in the beginning of the 2010s, at least.
Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat 


As for the Screen Gems short, "The Little Match Girl" is a good choice, but the other short - a Flippy - seems like it was randomly selected. Why not a Fox & Crow short, or even a Scrappy?



The Flippy cartoon is an Academy Award nominee, out of the 5 total nominees from Mintz/Gems.

I'd prefer a Fox and Crow, though, I agree they'd be better. A high-quality release of "The Fox and the Grapes" (1941) is long overdue...

I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
S. C. MacPeter
2021-06-18T02:23:06Z
Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat 

The UPA shorts seem specifically selected, since they're all well-known titles or feature Mr. Magoo. Kinda surprised they didn't pick "Gerald McBoing Boing". You'd think Sony would be flaunting their Oscar-winning stuff more often.



I was thinking the same thing, particularly since When Magoo Flew is on it. I wonder if they're gonna use the same prints on the DVD or re-restored

nickramer
2021-06-18T03:59:32Z
Great news!

You suppose Jerry was involved with the selection of the shorts?
fulano7
  • fulano7
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2021-06-18T18:39:57Z
Originally Posted by: nickramer 

Great news!

You suppose Jerry was involved with the selection of the shorts?



Probably not.

Otherwise the set would include Gerald McBoing Boing and Rooty Toot Toot, as they are essential UPA cartoons. Even if Jerry didn't have the final word on all shorts present in the final selection, Boing and Rooty would be selected as indispensable, essential content.

Also, Columbia Classics is a non-cartoon project, having nothing to do with the classic animation community until last Sunday. I'd be surprised if Jerry had any involvement at all.

But after all I'm just speculating...
I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
osoul
2021-06-25T05:55:33Z
I love The Little Match Girl, but completely unfamiliar most of the rest.

Honestly, I think at the very least, cartoons like "Fox and Grapes", "Wolf Chases Pigs", "Professor Tall and Mr. Small", "Flora", "Gerald McBoing Boing" and "Rooty Toot Toot" should have been added.
S. C. MacPeter
2021-06-25T17:44:25Z
I think Dog Cat and Canary is actually pretty good for what it is.

Otherwise, while I enjoy much of what they picked, there is better. Hell, I'd even buy a whole Fox and Crow complete set if Columbia did one. Who knows, maybe they have one planned out if the short bonuses are well received (it seems odd to me they would do more animated shorts then Stooges shorts to me, unless they no longer own those)
Leviathan
2021-06-25T20:34:03Z
Originally Posted by: osoul 

I love The Little Match Girl, but completely unfamiliar most of the rest.

Honestly, I think at the very least, cartoons like "Fox and Grapes", "Wolf Chases Pigs", "Professor Tall and Mr. Small", "Flora", "Gerald McBoing Boing" and "Rooty Toot Toot" should have been added.



And we would have seen at least one pre-Code Scrappy.

Still, this is a start. Hopefully, they'll do something a bit more comprehensive.
Zachary
2021-06-26T00:19:07Z
It's nice that Sony is finally releasing some cartoons in Blu-ray quality, but apart from that, this doesn't strike me as all that remarkable compared to what we've gotten before. The UPA cartoons received substantial coverage on DVD but only a handful of earlier Mintz/Screen Gems color cartoons trickled out as bonus material on live-action sets. (They couldn't be bothered with "that old black-and-white shit", as they put it to Mike Schlesinger, who "tried like hell" to get those out back when he worked there, to no avail.) And previously-released-on-DVD UPA cartoons are what we mostly get here, with only a couple more (color) crumbs thrown to those of us wanting the earlier material to see the light of day, all on a "bonus disc" in an otherwise live-action compilation of features. What's new?

It would be nice if The Little Match Girl has its (reportedly still extant) original titles reinstated, though that would require Sony to care enough to go to the extra trouble, and I'm not holding my breath for that.

I'd like to be pleasantly surprised to the contrary, but our best hope of the pre-UPA Columbia cartoons getting their due on home video is probably still in Thunderbean someday being able to license them from Sony.
S. C. MacPeter
2021-06-26T04:19:18Z
The titles for Little Match Girl indeed exist, they're at the Library of Congress. Whether or not Columbia used them (and the dozens of other ones they have) I am not sure. While I don't know if we'll Columbia step further, I'd love to hear further.

I sadly don't think Columbia would let Thunderbean handle a set, they have almost the complete Screen Gems library restored on their own, they just aren't releasing it
fulano7
  • fulano7
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2021-10-19T17:33:33Z
"The Little Match Girl" screenshots:

https://imgur.com/a/V6blomP 

Sony used the reissue titles. The transfer is softer than I thought it would be. Still grainy, actually great for my eyes, but a bit extra-stabilized, not so crisp, I don't know how to say it technically. The colors are less saturated than Thunderbean's.

"Dog, Cat and Canary" screenshots:

https://imgur.com/a/n3roc8Q 

Again, reissue titles. "Dog, Cat and Canary" to me looked deliciously grainy, vivid, and sharp. Sound isn't muffled. Overall this transfer reminded me of the best WAC ones. Of course it's a matter of personal taste and ability to spot issues. I can't tell if the soundtracks and title cards are all ok.

I didn't look for DVNR in any of the transfers. One transfer where I've been able to spot DVNR was "The Ragtime Bear" the moment when the tree on which the bear was sleeping shakes because of the car crash. The UPA transfers are the same from the 2012 (Jolly Frolics) and 2014 (Magoo) DVDs. There is stronger edge enchancement filter in the Magoo transfers (When Magoo Flew and Stage Door Magoo).

All series from the bonus disc deserve a standalone release. The absence of a standalone release of Three Stooges shorts on bluray in 2021 is a shame. All Stooge shorts have been remastered in HD already for the DVD releases, they're just sitting on the vault.
I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
Zachary
2021-10-20T21:20:32Z
Is that 1940s end title among the screenshots of The Little Match Girl actually the one attached to this version? If so, someone was trying to be clever and edited it in place of the Columbia Favorite ending. Actual original end title:

UserPostedImage 

The sharpness of the new "restoration" is no better than Steve's 35mm IB Technicolor transfer, and might even be a hair softer (though that later reissue print looks about as close to O.C.N. quality as you could hope for from a Technicolor print). But the real problem here is the color grading, or perhaps I should say, lack thereof. Frame-matching (where possible to determine) screenshots from Steve's scan:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/zWmGm6P 

Good grief, if I was looking at a glance and didn't already know which was which, I would think Steve's scan was the "restoration".
dbear
2021-10-21T10:46:58Z
Are you sure Steve's print scan accurately reflects how that print looks projected? The saturation looks a little too goosed from the screengrabs you posted.
Thad Komorowski
2021-10-22T01:38:15Z
Steve tends to juice his stuff a bit much.

Anyone have rips of this set they want to share?
Tsivc99
2021-10-22T03:49:14Z
"Dog Cat and Canary" (1945)


"Little Match Girl" (1937)
Zachary
2021-10-25T01:31:01Z
Nice to see you around here again, dbear. It's been quite a while.

Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

Steve tends to juice his stuff a bit much.


"Tends to"? Really? I might just have to see what he has to say for himself on that one.

There are occasional evident cases of Steve having goosed a scan or otherwise botched the adjustments, where there's an alternative copy of the same scan to compare with that isn't, or it's just obviously over the top compared to how it should look. In general though, they don't look that far off from the prints: contrasty and colorful. Steve physically handles this stuff before scanning, and sometimes exhibiting it. He knows what this stuff actually looks like. What he certainly isn't doing is toning that down to accommodate people who think the transfers are being goosed when it is in fact their improperly-configured TVs or monitors doing the goosing, or who just don't like it aesthetically.

The presentation of this print isn't perfect. Examining it more, it looks like there was an RGB<->YUV conversion with the incorrect matrix (BT.601 vs. the proper BT.709 standard for HD) somewhere in the pipeline, distorting the colors slightly, including blowing some reds out and obliterating some linework; if I display it using the BT.601 standard, those reds come back just within range revealing most of the obscured detail (as much as is present). (The screenshots I posted above used BT.709, as a player normally would.) It may have been pumped up a little bit, but not by much from the looks of it. If I cut back the saturation by 1/8, it still looks great and devastatingly richer than the new Sony version.

I'll mention that he transferred a 16mm IB Tech print some time previously. It looks murkier and a little washed out, like a dupier version of the 35mm print. But that's the thing: it resembles the 35mm print more in contrast and color timing. The obviously-intended lighting effects are flattened out in the Sony version.
nickramer
2021-10-30T04:45:24Z
At least the prints don't seem to have any DVNR problems.
Thad Komorowski
2021-11-03T17:03:46Z
Originally Posted by: Zachary 

Nice to see you around here again, dbear. It's been quite a while.

Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

Steve tends to juice his stuff a bit much.


"Tends to"? Really? I might just have to see what he has to say for himself on that one.

There are occasional evident cases of Steve having goosed a scan or otherwise botched the adjustments, where there's an alternative copy of the same scan to compare with that isn't, or it's just obviously over the top compared to how it should look. In general though, they don't look that far off from the prints: contrasty and colorful. Steve physically handles this stuff before scanning, and sometimes exhibiting it. He knows what this stuff actually looks like. What he certainly isn't doing is toning that down to accommodate people who think the transfers are being goosed when it is in fact their improperly-configured TVs or monitors doing the goosing, or who just don't like it aesthetically.

The presentation of this print isn't perfect. Examining it more, it looks like there was an RGB<->YUV conversion with the incorrect matrix (BT.601 vs. the proper BT.709 standard for HD) somewhere in the pipeline, distorting the colors slightly, including blowing some reds out and obliterating some linework; if I display it using the BT.601 standard, those reds come back just within range revealing most of the obscured detail (as much as is present). (The screenshots I posted above used BT.709, as a player normally would.) It may have been pumped up a little bit, but not by much from the looks of it. If I cut back the saturation by 1/8, it still looks great and devastatingly richer than the new Sony version.

I'll mention that he transferred a 16mm IB Tech print some time previously. It looks murkier and a little washed out, like a dupier version of the 35mm print. But that's the thing: it resembles the 35mm print more in contrast and color timing. The obviously-intended lighting effects are flattened out in the Sony version.




Having now just browsed through several "fundraiser" discs that consist of prints I either loaned or have owned that range from literally ungraded to juiced to glow-in-the-dark radiation, I have to think what I think: the color correction job needs to be passed off to someone else. (attached example from the raw scan and "corrected" version of my print of UNCLE TOM'S BUNGALOW)

UserPostedImage 
UserPostedImage