OutOfOdor
3 years ago
Yeah, you did make it clear that Astra and Cinepix were the same outfit. So wouldn't be surprised if there exist prints of "Goats and Whiskers" and "A King's Christmas" with Astra titles instead of the Cinepix titles seen in your prints, heh. Morris Kleinerman and his people were some recyclers, heh.

Tom, do you think the "Cartoon Capers" TV package has any connection to Astra? I noticed the video you uploaded of one ("Hello Amigo"/"The Lady in Red") had one of Astra's stock end titles and the "A Fireman's Life" music - is that package later release of stock from the Astra/Cinepix archives with fresh new titles?

Ladd might not have even remembered little minute details about those prints? Huh.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
3 years ago

Yeah, you did make it clear that Astra and Cinepix were the same outfit. So wouldn't be surprised if there exist prints of "Goats and Whiskers" and "A King's Christmas" with Astra titles instead of the Cinepix titles seen in your prints, heh. Morris Kleinerman and his people were some recyclers, heh.

Tom, do you think the "Cartoon Capers" TV package has any connection to Astra? I noticed the video you uploaded of one ("Hello Amigo"/"The Lady in Red") had one of Astra's stock end titles and the "A Fireman's Life" music - is that package later release of stock from the Astra/Cinepix archives with fresh new titles?

Ladd might not have even remembered little minute details about those prints? Huh.

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



I think Cartoon Capers and a couple others like it are direct rehashings of Krazytoons, but I'm sure there must have been a relation to Astra. Or at least duping of each other. That end title card was rather common in the world of home movie making and being able to order/use premade titles for whatever you wanted.

Ladd might not have remembered these minor details because in the long run, these details didn't matter to business operations. I find them mildly interesting, but in a greater context, they really don't represent information that anyone except folks like us would give a second thought. Ladd may have liked animation, but he was a businessman of another generation. People simply didn't care too much about such things, and most still don't. It was a means to an end.

OutOfOdor
3 years ago
I think I know approx. how many cartoons were in the Cinepix/Astra/Cinema-Vue package, thanks to the Yowp article I posted in the OP.

Seems they started out with about 100, c. Sept. 1955:
"Cinema-Vue Takes Cinepix Cartoons, 1-2 Reel Comedies
NEW YORK, Sept. 17—Cinema-Vue this week took over distribution of the 100 cartoons and 100 one and two-reel comedies that had been handled by Cinepix. It is expected that the Westerns, features and other product out of the latter’s vaults will later also go over to Cinema-Vue, making Cinepix inoperative as a separate entity.
Frank Smith, who had been running Cinepix, has moved over to the new firm as vice-president under his brother, Joe."

A follow-up story in Oct. 1955 says that they now had 150 cartoons on their package, and another article, in May 1956, reveals that they had expanded the library to about 350 B&W shorts, and that they acquired a bunch of "color" cartoons from Morris Kleinerman.
"Cinema-Vue’s New Batch Of 52 Color Cartoons
Cinema-Vue Corp, has acquired a new group of 52 color cartoons, which added to its backlog of 350 black-and-white subjects, brings its total animated library to 402 shorts. It had acquired 150 b-w's only a week earlier. All the films go into its "Whimseyland" package. Of the 52 new color subjects, 12 of which are "Mutt & Jeff" pix, a total of 40 were acquired from Morris Kleinerman..."

Dunno if this means that they had THAT many cartoons in the package, or not, or just generally refers to the amount of B&W stuff they had in their library at the time. A "Sponsor" magazine from Jan/April 1957 mentions 150 cartoons as being in the package...
Also, it seems their bootleg cartoon package put out by Astra/Cinepix had an actual name: "Whimseyland".
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
3 years ago
When the prints turn up in their original packaging, they are in "Whimseyland Cartoon" boxes. I'm sure they were printing and sending out more than one or two hundred different subjects, as the articles suggest.
OutOfOdor
3 years ago
Edited the OP with a number of names I found on an old eBay listing of Whimseyland/Astra prints preserved on Worthpoint:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/whimseyland-cartoon-huge-lot-14-498353982 
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
3 years ago
That batch of prints is sitting just a few feet away from me as we speak. I'll say no more at this time!
OutOfOdor
3 years ago

That batch of prints is sitting just a few feet away from me as we speak. I'll say no more at this time!

Originally Posted by: Tommy Stathes 


Congratulations, then! Reassuring to hear that group's in good hands.

"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
3 years ago
You know, "Scare Crow and the Wolf" could be the Iwerks "Little Boy Blue", but that's a wild guess...
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
3 years ago

Added another cartoon to the list, this sailor cartoon from the Carpenter-Goldman studio. No "Astra TV presents..." title card is shown, but the title card background and hearing a few seconds of the typical Astra fanfare reveal that this was indeed part of the package.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
3 years ago
Hey, my apologies if I did or said anything, Arthur.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
3 years ago

https://youtu.be/JHXMF0M7-uc
Added another cartoon to the list, this sailor cartoon from the Carpenter-Goldman studio. No "Astra TV presents..." title card is shown, but the title card background and hearing a few seconds of the typical Astra fanfare reveal that this was indeed part of the package.

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



Most of the Astra prints did not actually have their intro card printed in with the films. It was only included in relatively few of the prints.
OutOfOdor
3 years ago
Added "The Under Dog":
UserPostedImage

These images used to be on a post on Stathes' blog, but the image is broken currently. Thankfully I was able to find pics via the ol' Wayback Machine. Incidentally, wouldn't surprise me one iota if this is just the Snappy Cartoons version of this cartoon with a new title card and music added to it...
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
2 years ago
I've seen the original black and white "Egyptian Daze." It doesn't end with the "Screen Attractions" card, but rather the usual Astra TV "The End" with the sunset. The Screen Attraction cel was probably from another production, and mixed up while being redrawn.
OutOfOdor
2 years ago
Glad to hear. Still doesn't mean that there might be a different version Ladd used as a source with it as the end title.
By the by, where did you find the B&W version of it? Stathes' DVDs?
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
2 years ago

Glad to hear. Still doesn't mean that there might be a different version Ladd used as a source with it as the end title.
By the by, where did you find the B&W version of it? Stathes' DVDs?

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



Considering the "Screen Attractions" card was set upon the sunset background, I would still have to imagine that there was a cel mixup. I'm not entirely sure where the print came from, but it turned up on the Cartoon Research Twitch Stream a few times. Here are some clips of the titles:

https://www.twitch.tv/cartoonresearch/clip/AmorphousClumsyOstrichCoolCat-uhf8rTFQgk_2jmi_?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time 
https://www.twitch.tv/cartoonresearch/clip/DarlingBusySaladKlappa-q0l3r7lqsxO3EMEo?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time 
OutOfOdor
2 years ago
Thanks! Seems that opening intertitle ("Hey! Stop smoking that camel and give it a drink!") was spliced out of Ladd's version.
(As a side note, I just hope that there's more Astra prints out there with different music than just the same sharples beds over and over...)
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
2 years ago

That batch of prints is sitting just a few feet away from me as we speak. I'll say no more at this time!

Originally Posted by: Tommy Stathes 


If I may ask - do you think you're in the right place to say what these cartoons are yet? I'd love to see a name on any of these - and if any of them are ones you can't identify, maybe one of us could help.


"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Been a while since I last posted on this thread, but I was recently alerted of another cartoon in this package: Alaskan Knights from Columbia's Krazy Kat series, retitled Animal Rhythm.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
S. C. MacPeter
a year ago
Two things:
-I've seen a Screen Attractions print of a McCrory Life Comedy called MISSING LINKS, it had the same title too. May wanna add this
-THE UNDERDOG is a 1929 release
OutOfOdor
a year ago
And I've added that cartoon, and corrected that mistake. Thank you!
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)

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