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Mesterius  
#121 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:28:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Leviathan Go to Quoted Post
Notably, at around 23:01, George Feltenstein refers to Porky 101 as a "hit". Generally, it seems like his take on things is more optimistic than Jerry's.


Yeah, I was confused by that too. Jerry, in his Cartoon Research presentation, underlined very clearly that the Porky Pig set took 7-8 months to break even, and then continued by saying, "but “brake even” isn’t good enough for a mega corporation." He has said several times that the Popeye set needs to outsell Porky for the classic cartoon releases to continue. I must admit I'm leaning towards Jerry in this regard, since, as I have said before, I have trouble believing that the Porky Pig set was really a "bestseller". But judging from George Feltenstein's words, it was.
Mesterius  
#122 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:47:02 AM(UTC)
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Now I'm confused... some people at the blu-ray.com forum are apparently receiving their copies of the set already. One member stated in a comment yesterday, "My copy just arrived today," while another followed with, "Mine just shipped from Best Buy, should be here in a day or two." What gives?? The Warner Archive webshop still says that shipping starts December 11, and so does Best Buy (US version of the site, I believe). And of course, Amazon still has it listed as "Currently unavailable"...

Edited by user Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:49:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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TibbyH  
#123 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:50:59 AM(UTC)
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The podcast was super informative (especially to a Popeye novice like myself) and got me even more interested in buying the set.

Consider me sold.
Einhander  
#124 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:34:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post


Yeah, I was confused by that too. Jerry, in his Cartoon Research presentation, underlined very clearly that the Porky Pig set took 7-8 months to break even, and then continued by saying, "but “brake even” isn’t good enough for a mega corporation." He has said several times that the Popeye set needs to outsell Porky for the classic cartoon releases to continue. I must admit I'm leaning towards Jerry in this regard, since, as I have said before, I have trouble believing that the Porky Pig set was really a "bestseller". But judging from George Feltenstein's words, it was.



I think this set has the potential to vastly outsell Porky Pig 101. Popeye has more star power than Porky Pig.
vdubdavid  
#125 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 1:18:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dbear Go to Quoted Post
I really liked George Feltenstein's mention of the big cartoon preservation program that is going on at Warner right now, and how this includes more than just the Popeye cartoons.


That caught my ear too. I really want to know more about that, if that means that the Looney Tunes and MGM cartoons are being included in this 'restoration program on steroids' (as Mr. Feltenstein put it). In particular, are they going to correct errors that cropped up on previous releases (scrambled soundtracks, bad color correction, etc.) and are they simply scanning what they have OR will they do what they've done with features like 'The Sea Wolf' and look beyond the WB vaults to find more original, non-reissue material?

This is such an incredible opportunity, and needs to be taken full advantage of.

Edited by user Wednesday, December 5, 2018 1:19:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Einhander  
#126 Posted : Wednesday, December 5, 2018 8:04:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vdubdavid Go to Quoted Post


That caught my ear too. I really want to know more about that, if that means that the Looney Tunes and MGM cartoons are being included in this 'restoration program on steroids' (as Mr. Feltenstein put it). In particular, are they going to correct errors that cropped up on previous releases (scrambled soundtracks, bad color correction, etc.) and are they simply scanning what they have OR will they do what they've done with features like 'The Sea Wolf' and look beyond the WB vaults to find more original, non-reissue material?

This is such an incredible opportunity, and needs to be taken full advantage of.


Just a theory, but perhaps these restoration efforts are somehow linked to AT&T's purchase of Time Warner. Maybe these restorations are for the new WarnerMedia streaming service?

Edited by user Wednesday, December 5, 2018 8:08:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Einhander  
#127 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 4:29:53 AM(UTC)
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John G from the Blu-Ray.com forums has gotten a copy early. He has stated:

"Watched several of the cartoons last night.

They look amazing. Way better than we could have expected.

Audio is a little on the tinny side on 1 or 2 but it's a minor quibble. I'm just really happy to own these at all!

I'm no authority on this but I suspect very slight cropping may have taken place. Probably just done to tidy up the edges of the picture. Don't take my word for this, it just struck me while watching. Somebody else might tell me I'm wrong. Fair enough."
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Mesterius  
#128 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 6:25:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Einhander Go to Quoted Post
John G from the Blu-Ray.com forums has gotten a copy early. He has stated:

"Watched several of the cartoons last night.

They look amazing. Way better than we could have expected.

Audio is a little on the tinny side on 1 or 2 but it's a minor quibble. I'm just really happy to own these at all!

I'm no authority on this but I suspect very slight cropping may have taken place. Probably just done to tidy up the edges of the picture. Don't take my word for this, it just struck me while watching. Somebody else might tell me I'm wrong. Fair enough."


I wonder how that part about the cropping "struck him", as he doesn't sound (to me at least) like he has watched the cartoons before. And even if he has, I can't imagine that the old analogue video masters have more picture information. They likely have far less. Did this occur to him simply because the picture doesn't have round edges like actual film frames? I'm pretty sure this is how Warner (not to mention most other companies) always releases their films: do a subtle cropping on all sides to 'tidy up the edges', as he puts it.
Jason Todd  
#129 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:12:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how that part about the cropping "struck him", as he doesn't sound (to me at least) like he has watched the cartoons before. And even if he has, I can't imagine that the old analogue video masters have more picture information. They likely have far less. Did this occur to him simply because the picture doesn't have round edges like actual film frames? I'm pretty sure this is how Warner (not to mention most other companies) always releases their films: do a subtle cropping on all sides to 'tidy up the edges', as he puts it.


He's probably used to Thunderbean's restoration style, which I've noticed tends to avoid cropping out the edges of each film.
Mesterius  
#130 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:38:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jason Todd Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how that part about the cropping "struck him", as he doesn't sound (to me at least) like he has watched the cartoons before. And even if he has, I can't imagine that the old analogue video masters have more picture information. They likely have far less. Did this occur to him simply because the picture doesn't have round edges like actual film frames? I'm pretty sure this is how Warner (not to mention most other companies) always releases their films: do a subtle cropping on all sides to 'tidy up the edges', as he puts it.


He's probably used to Thunderbean's restoration style, which I've noticed tends to avoid cropping out the edges of each film.


Ahhh... yeah, that's a very good point. If he collects Thunderbean releases it's probably easy to get accustomed to it.

I think it can be charming to see the round edges myself, though it certainly isn't of great importance to me whether the edges are included or not. All older animation releases I own on Blu-ray from companies like Disney and Warner crop off the round edges, so I'm guessing Thunderbean is the exception to the rule here.

Edited by user Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:48:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jason Todd  
#131 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:48:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
Ahhh... yeah, that's a very good point. If he collects Thunderbean releases it's probably easy to get accustomed to it.


Exactly. Conversely, I'm more accustomed to Warner's and Universal's restoration style, which I've observed usually window-boxes the title sequences of each film in black borders and formats the bodies thereof to fit the whole television screen--a tendency which appears absent (or, less common) in Thunderbean's mastering style.

Not that I'm complaining, of course; just pointing out an interesting comparison.
Mesterius  
#132 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:50:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jason Todd Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
Ahhh... yeah, that's a very good point. If he collects Thunderbean releases it's probably easy to get accustomed to it.


Exactly. Conversely, I'm more accustomed to Warner's and Universal's restoration style, which I've observed usually window-boxes the title sequences of each film in black borders and formats the bodies thereof to fit the whole television screen--a tendency which appears absent (or, less common) in Thunderbean's mastering style.

Not that I'm complaining, of course; just pointing out an interesting comparison.


So that's why the title sequences are windowboxed? Because they would crop out actual credits if cropped to the same extent as the main body of the cartoons?
Jason Todd  
#133 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:59:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
So that's why the title sequences are windowboxed? Because they would crop out actual credits if cropped to the same extent as the main body of the cartoons?


One thing I've noticed about Thunderbean's remasters is that the whole cartoon is often presented windowboxed; not just the opening and/or closing title sequences. To me, that struck me as the main characteristic that separates Thunderbean from Disney, Warner, or Universal, in terms of restoration policies. Why this is, I don't know, but have been curious about for quite a while.
DevonB  
#134 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 8:33:47 AM(UTC)
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Believe it or not, I've been told requesting the rounded corners on a film element during a scan is met with some skepticism: "Why would you want those?"
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dbear  
#135 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 8:49:43 AM(UTC)
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The Popeyes Steve has scanned from this era don’t actually have any “rounded corners” but expose a lot of dead space at the top and bottom with the occasional edges of cells and other junk you’d never see in a cinema.
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Mesterius  
#136 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 8:54:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jason Todd Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
Ahhh... yeah, that's a very good point. If he collects Thunderbean releases it's probably easy to get accustomed to it.


Exactly. Conversely, I'm more accustomed to Warner's and Universal's restoration style, which I've observed usually window-boxes the title sequences of each film in black borders and formats the bodies thereof to fit the whole television screen--a tendency which appears absent (or, less common) in Thunderbean's mastering style.

Not that I'm complaining, of course; just pointing out an interesting comparison.


Originally Posted by: Jason Todd Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
So that's why the title sequences are windowboxed? Because they would crop out actual credits if cropped to the same extent as the main body of the cartoons?


One thing I've noticed about Thunderbean's remasters is that the whole cartoon is often presented windowboxed; not just the opening and/or closing title sequences. To me, that struck me as the main characteristic that separates Thunderbean from Disney, Warner, or Universal, in terms of restoration policies. Why this is, I don't know, but have been curious about for quite a while.


Hmmm... but do they do this windowboxing on the Blu-rays too? I have some lingering memories of it on early films in the Tom and Jerry Golden Collection set... but there are certainly films on that set without this letterboxing too, like "Kitty Foiled". And I don't quite understand why you would need to windowbox anything for a remastered Blu-ray release. Back when the old television masters of the cartoons were put together, it made sense to windowbox the opening titles, because they had to operate within TV's 'safe zones' and couldn't be sure exactly how much picture information would be chopped off in the broadcast. But Blu-rays and today's flatscreen TVs don't have this problem.



Thad Komorowski  
#137 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 8:57:25 AM(UTC)
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Yeah, the rounded corner BS/“full image” is my bone of contention with Steve. I agree: scan all you can to work with, then matte appropriately. But it actually creates MORE work when you have to work on part of the picture you were never supposed to see in the first place. But I’ve let it go.
Jason Todd  
#138 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 9:26:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, the rounded corner BS/“full image” is my bone of contention with Steve. I agree: scan all you can to work with, then matte appropriately. But it actually creates MORE work when you have to work on part of the picture you were never supposed to see in the first place. But I’ve let it go.


Right, and it's not a big deal, really. It's just an oddity that I noticed, and that nobody else seems to talk about.
Jason Todd  
#139 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 9:39:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
Hmmm... but do they do this windowboxing on the Blu-rays too? I have some lingering memories of it on early films in the Tom and Jerry Golden Collection set... but there are certainly films on that set without this letterboxing too, like "Kitty Foiled". And I don't quite understand why you would need to windowbox anything for a remastered Blu-ray release. Back when the old television masters of the cartoons were put together, it made sense to windowbox the opening titles, because they had to operate within TV's 'safe zones' and couldn't be sure exactly how much picture information would be chopped off in the broadcast. But Blu-rays and today's flatscreen TVs don't have this problem.


Almost all of the films on the Looney Tunes Golden Collection DVDs have their front-and-end titles windowboxed, as well as those on Universal's Woody Woodpecker and Friends Classic Cartoon Collection. While this practice is carried into more recent sets like the Looney Tunes Platinum Collection and Tom and Jerry Golden Collection Blu-rays, less of the cartoons are presented that way. It's interesting.
Mesterius  
#140 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:08:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jason Todd Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
Hmmm... but do they do this windowboxing on the Blu-rays too? I have some lingering memories of it on early films in the Tom and Jerry Golden Collection set... but there are certainly films on that set without this letterboxing too, like "Kitty Foiled". And I don't quite understand why you would need to windowbox anything for a remastered Blu-ray release. Back when the old television masters of the cartoons were put together, it made sense to windowbox the opening titles, because they had to operate within TV's 'safe zones' and couldn't be sure exactly how much picture information would be chopped off in the broadcast. But Blu-rays and today's flatscreen TVs don't have this problem.


Almost all of the films on the Looney Tunes Golden Collection DVDs have their front-and-end titles windowboxed, as well as those on Universal's Woody Woodpecker and Friends Classic Cartoon Collection. While this practice is carried into more recent sets like the Looney Tunes Platinum Collection and Tom and Jerry Golden Collection Blu-rays, less of the cartoons are presented that way. It's interesting.


Yeah, but I would find it more interesting to know why. Why do windowboxed titles still appear on some of the cartoons on Blu-ray? Are the elements they are sourcing some of the films from already windowboxed? It's hard for me to imagine that Warner has gone in and added windowboxing to the high-def restorations of the cartoons... but maybe they have.

I just now checked the remastered DVD version of Dixieland Droopy, the only cartoon that was properly restored on the 2007 Droopy DVD set. That one has the opening titles windowboxed, but only those – not the end titles. I'm certain this cartoon was remastered in high definition. Then again, I suppose Warner might have added the windowboxing specifically for the DVD release, to make sure the text credits would be seen fully intact even on older television sets.

Edited by user Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:21:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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