What's the deal with "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat"? - Forum.
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Einhander  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 5:41:21 AM(UTC)
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Why is Warners so reluctant to release it? The racial gags in both cartoons are no better or worse than the ones featured in other Tom And Jerry cartoons. Yet both Mouse Cleaning and Casanova Cat have never been released on a home format in the US since those Tom And Jerry laserdiscs in the early 90's. Why Warners?

BTW Warners, where's my Popeye Vol. 4 set?
PopKorn Kat  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 6:20:27 AM(UTC)
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I'll write up an FAQ on these boards someday mentioning frequently mentioned issues like this one.

To make a long story short, nobody knows except for WB apparently, and they aren't specific about the details.

p.s. in case you decide to go digging: Stephen Worth ("bigshot") has alleged on the Home Theater Forum that there is a woman at the legal department forbidding the release of these two shorts. However, given that Worth is not an employee for WB, this should be taken with a grain of salt.
fulano7  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:13:38 AM(UTC)
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i never understood it. if we can have a "birth of a nation" bluray, why not tom & jerry?

i think that the problem is that the distributors have never been able to treat golden age cartoons as what they really are: the adult animation of their time.

golden age cartoons are full of stereotypes, risqué content, racism, violence, yet the distributors still try to sell them as "family entertainment". it's embarassing. they have to admit that such cartoons are like simpsons, futurama etc. and stop with all the drama involved in almost every golden age cartoon release, with disclaimers and all the bullshit.

damn all distributors when, sometime in the 1960's, someone thought it was a good idea to broadcast such cartoons at saturday morning and call them "family entertainment". they aren't fucking family entertainment, they were never meant for children...

Edited by user Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:15:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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WaltWiz1901 on 10/23/2018(UTC)
Einhander  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 9:12:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat Go to Quoted Post


p.s. in case you decide to go digging: Stephen Worth ("bigshot") has alleged on the Home Theater Forum that there is a woman at the legal department forbidding the release of these two shorts. However, given that Worth is not an employee for WB, this should be taken with a grain of salt.


Ahh yes.. I have long suspected of that woman being Mary Ellen Thomas: Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Vice President, Family & Animation Marketing.
PopKorn Kat  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 9:13:32 AM(UTC)
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There’s a reason why I say to take that info with a grain of salt. Let’s not start any witch hunts here.
nickramer  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 11:16:26 AM(UTC)
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What I don't understand is that while the cartoon is not on DVD, Hallmark released an ornament this year based on this short. I email this to someone that has connections at Warners and he said (jokingly probably) this is evidence that Warners needs to release that cartoon. He may have shared this information at the Home department.

Also, is profanity even allowed in this forum?

Edited by user Tuesday, October 23, 2018 11:37:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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WaltWiz1901 on 10/29/2018(UTC)
PopKorn Kat  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 12:08:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nickramer Go to Quoted Post
Also, is profanity even allowed in this forum?


The occasional use of "strong" profanity is allowed provided it isn't used in excess.
Einhander  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:22:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat Go to Quoted Post
There’s a reason why I say to take that info with a grain of salt. Let’s not start any witch hunts here.


I know,I'd never condone actions like witch-hunting. I was just stating a theory I've had for a while. And a theory is never 100% true.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I've noticed that this only seems to be a problem in WHV US releases. The UK Classic Collection DVD has both cartoons included and uncut. Does WHV USA have a specific cartoon backlist?
Toonatic  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:20:42 PM(UTC)
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From what I understood, the reason is because (and I'm not being racist, this is a story from what I heard) an African American lady bought a Tom and Jerry VHS tape meant for collecto5rs, for her kids (at the time MGM was still distributing their pre-86 material via Turner). That VHS tape contained Mouse Cleaning and when she saw it, she was appalled. Since then, Turner made the decision to never release that short again. It's also said that same woman would become one of the higher-ups at Warner who stated the cartoons would be released over her dead body.

As for Casanova Cat, I'm not sure why that decision was to ban it (especially since years ago they showed a censored print on TV).
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WaltWiz1901 on 10/29/2018(UTC)
PopKorn Kat  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 11:18:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Toonatic Go to Quoted Post
From what I understood, the reason is because (and I'm not being racist, this is a story from what I heard) an African American lady bought a Tom and Jerry VHS tape meant for collecto5rs, for her kids (at the time MGM was still distributing their pre-86 material via Turner). That VHS tape contained Mouse Cleaning and when she saw it, she was appalled. Since then, Turner made the decision to never release that short again. It's also said that same woman would become one of the higher-ups at Warner who stated the cartoons would be released over her dead body.


Yeah...that's the story Stephen Worth kept spreading. He's not the most reliable person on Earth, so there's a reason why I say to take that story with a grain of salt.
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Mesterius on 10/25/2018(UTC), Toonatic on 10/25/2018(UTC)
willoughbyfan  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2018 4:57:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: fulano7 Go to Quoted Post
damn all distributors when, sometime in the 1960's, someone thought it was a good idea to broadcast such cartoons at saturday morning and call them "family entertainment". they aren't fucking family entertainment, they were never meant for children...


I think it's a little less straightforward than that. There were already "Mickey Mouse Clubs" and "Popeye Clubs" aimed at kids by the mid-1930s. So I don't think it was TV programmers in the 50s and 60s who decided to change gears. I think Golden Age cartoons were more like Spongebob--they were mostly aimed at kids, but fast-paced enough and with a couple of jokes thrown in aimed at adults so the adults wouldn't get bored. But overall, it was still family entertainment, just slightly more risque.

Still, it doesn't mean you can't release them without a disclaimer, or at worst, a few cuts.
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PopKorn Kat on 10/25/2018(UTC)
Einhander  
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2018 6:49:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Toonatic Go to Quoted Post
From what I understood, the reason is because (and I'm not being racist, this is a story from what I heard) an African American lady bought a Tom and Jerry VHS tape meant for collecto5rs, for her kids (at the time MGM was still distributing their pre-86 material via Turner). That VHS tape contained Mouse Cleaning and when she saw it, she was appalled. Since then, Turner made the decision to never release that short again. It's also said that same woman would become one of the higher-ups at Warner who stated the cartoons would be released over her dead body.

As for Casanova Cat, I'm not sure why that decision was to ban it (especially since years ago they showed a censored print on TV).



So I guess this is another "Bugs Bunny Nips The Nips" then.

Edited by user Thursday, October 25, 2018 6:50:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Bradskey  
#13 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 12:50:55 AM(UTC)
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Years ago I scraped a couple of admittedly poor copies of these shorts off of Youtube. I looked recently to see if there were better copies available and noticed instead that they now only seem to exist in truncated clips of 2 min or so. Unless I missed something.
Mesterius  
#14 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 1:28:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bradskey Go to Quoted Post
Years ago I scraped a couple of admittedly poor copies of these shorts off of Youtube. I looked recently to see if there were better copies available and noticed instead that they now only seem to exist in truncated clips of 2 min or so. Unless I missed something.


YouTube is the wrong place to look for most classic animated shorts owned by Warner Brothers. Warner tends to get them removed pretty much immediately these days (if they don't just block them worldwide the moment they get posted).
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PopKorn Kat on 10/29/2018(UTC), VoiceTalentBrendan on 10/29/2018(UTC), WaltWiz1901 on 10/29/2018(UTC)
WaltWiz1901  
#15 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 4:35:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
YouTube is the wrong place to look for most classic animated shorts owned by Warner Brothers. Warner tends to get them removed pretty much immediately these days (if they don't just block them worldwide the moment they get posted).

And yet, to name one example......Disney hasn't bothered to remove the numerous unauthorized YouTube uploads of its own shorts, many of which are time-compressed, many of which are plagued with compression artifacts, and some of which are stretched out to a wider aspect ratio! (It sure does suck being someone who can't view them anywhere aside from a site that has them unnecessarily altered in at least some way now, doesn't it? Even the studio's official upload of Steamboat Willie is apparently the 1953 edited version and not either one of the more recent unedited restorations!)

Getting back on topic, didn't Mouse Cleaning get restored before it was pulled from the Blu-ray/DVD it was going to be on?
WaltWiz1901  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 4:58:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: fulano7 Go to Quoted Post
i never understood it. if we can have a "birth of a nation" bluray, why not tom & jerry?

i think that the problem is that the distributors have never been able to treat golden age cartoons as what they really are: the adult animation of their time.

golden age cartoons are full of stereotypes, risqué content, racism, violence, yet the distributors still try to sell them as "family entertainment". it's embarassing. they have to admit that such cartoons are like simpsons, futurama etc. and stop with all the drama involved in almost every golden age cartoon release, with disclaimers and all the bullshit.

damn all distributors when, sometime in the 1960's, someone thought it was a good idea to broadcast such cartoons at saturday morning and call them "family entertainment". they aren't fucking family entertainment, they were never meant for children...

And yet the same person who told the story that Toonatic described is also saying that the market for these cartoons on home video is families with children. Nonsense! You perfectly summed up my thoughts on that whole matter!

I don't get why it's not okay to put out at least a few more releases aimed at collectors, but it's okay to roll out cheap compilations with only a few shorts, no bonuses, and - in the case of Blu-ray releases - lossy audio. There should be a perfectly balanced mix of both release formats - why not consider that and just stick with it?
PopKorn Kat  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 7:43:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
I don't get why it's not okay to put out at least a few more releases aimed at collectors, but it's okay to roll out cheap compilations with only a few shorts, no bonuses, and - in the case of Blu-ray releases - lossy audio. There should be a perfectly balanced mix of both release formats - why not consider that and just stick with it?


Simple. The collector's releases are aimed at a small market--collectors. Casual releases aimed at families sell more because that's a bigger market. Furthermore, it must be far easier to slap a few titles on Netflix/Hulu/Crackle/whatever instead of painstakingly restoring a short for a Blu-Ray.
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WaltWiz1901 on 10/29/2018(UTC)
WaltWiz1901  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 9:01:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat Go to Quoted Post
Simple. The collector's releases are aimed at a small market--collectors. Casual releases aimed at families sell more because that's a bigger market. Furthermore, it must be far easier to slap a few titles on Netflix/Hulu/Crackle/whatever instead of painstakingly restoring a short for a Blu-Ray.

That may be true, but would it hurt to focus on both release types instead of just slapping a couple of shorts together and putting them out on a streaming service or big-box store bargain bin? I don't think so.

Collector's releases can sell just as well as releases aimed at casual fans - just look at the Looney Tunes Golden Collection sets and the animation-themed Walt Disney Treasures. The limited quantities of the latter and the fact that these were the first time these shorts were given a full-fledged DVD release probably had to do with why they performed so well when initially released.....
Mark The Shark  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 12:11:49 AM(UTC)
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Whatever the reason for those two shorts being pulled (despite other shorts being cleared for release with comparable content), it could be simply that when the second T&J chronological set was in the works, some powers-that-be looked at a list, noted that those two shorts had been held back from the previous DVD collections, and nixed them again on that basis alone. They probably never even reviewed those two shorts or any of the others.

But we know this was a sensitive subject from the beginning, since the first T&J DVD collection skipped all the Mammy shorts. Somehow though, they were allowed on subsequent volumes.
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