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WaltWiz1901  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 29, 2018 12:01:16 PM(UTC)
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Recently, I've been thinking about becoming an intern at the Walt Disney Animation Studios when I grow up. One of the things I notice nowadays, both in (from what I've read) parodies and - confusingly - in some of the company's own work - is that almost no one knows what makes Mickey Mouse and the gang, well, tick (for the lack of a better word). Currently, there seems to be no less than three ways to see them, none of which truly match their original and universally famous appearances as characters in simple, less-than-ten-minutes cartoon short subjects: primarily as slick, modernized versions of the characters starring in television shorts that go as far as to abandon these characters' spirit and experiment with gags that wouldn't look out-of-place in a Ren & Stimpy or a (modern) SpongeBob episode, secondarily as cheesy computer-generated kids' show hosts who act almost nothing like their original counterparts, and less frequently as.....well, whatever they are in Mickey and the Roadster Racers (someone please help me here; I haven't seen much of that show). The original cartoons, to the best of my knowledge, are missing in action; the best we'll get to knowing about them is by an easily forgettable reference in any of these three shows (and if you really want to find them on DVD, you'll have to pony up a ****-ton of money for just a couple of them - and in some cases, just one).

For a long time, I've been thinking of coming up with new Mickey, Donald, Goofy, and Pluto short cartoons that can capture the same spirit as the former shorts - but also not completely derail or drop their true personalities. I get what the Disney Channel shorts are doing, but they have managed to do both things that I mentioned and do stuff that no one else who has worked with these characters would fly with. Inspired by this very precise blog piece (which should be of any help to anyone involved with that Looney Tunes revival project coming up, by the way) and what I've come to know about the Disney characters, I decided to make up some rules for anyone who wants to use them (again) in new shorts. Here's the first eight (you're all free to read it, then suggest to me more rules):
-When writing and drawing these shorts (or "episodes"; I was thinking of doing a television adaptation of the Floyd Gottfredson Mickey comics, but I haven't done much of it), make sure that you know who the characters are (for those of you who aren't quite sure, here's the Disney Wiki articles for Mickey, Donald, Goofy, and Pluto, undoubtedly the main stars of the show, to get you started; I would have put in links for the same site's articles for Minnie, Daisy, Pete, Chip n' Dale, etc., but I don't have a lot of time right now)
-If you're going to do a storyline for a "Mickey Mouse" cartoon or episode and you place Pluto in it, do not make him take over the entire short/episode - Mickey is the main focus, of course
-There are more characters to utilize than solely Mickey and Goofy; if Humphrey Bear and Ludwig von Drake, both of whom aren't as well-known as the "sensational six", could get their own cartoons without any of the other main characters, why not Minnie, Daisy, anyone else in Donald's family tree, Jose Carioca, or even Pete?
-Mickey should be, at best, given some "traction" in most of his appearances without being relegated to a bland, almost lifeless figure
-Don't condense or overdo Donald and Goofy's personalities; they can, respectively, lose their temper and be a dim-witted goof sometime, but they don't need to do such all the time or be dumbed down, so to speak
-If you're going to use gross-out humor, keep it to a minimum (and more importantly, keep it subtle)
-There doesn't need to be a reference to almost any other piece of Walt or post-Walt Disney work in all of the shorts/episodes
-If you want to design the characters specifically for these cartoons, make sure they actually look like themselves and aren't straying away from such, like the 2010's shorts and Clubhouse

Any other suggestions?

Edited by user Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:26:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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DaffyTheGaucho on 7/2/2018(UTC)
WaltWiz1901  
#2 Posted : Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:26:27 AM(UTC)
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Wow, pretty surprising (and sad) that no one like Mac or Nic has bothered to look at this thing. After all, they would be masters at figuring out what to do with my "rules" and adding new ones.......
PopKorn Kat  
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:10:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
Wow, pretty surprising (and sad) that no one like Mac or Nic has bothered to look at this thing. After all, they would be masters at figuring out what to do with my "rules" and adding new ones.......


Please don't post comments like these. If Nic and/or Mac desire, they will look at the thread and/or comment on it.
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TibbyH on 7/1/2018(UTC), WaltWiz1901 on 7/1/2018(UTC)
WaltWiz1901  
#4 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2018 1:02:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
Wow, pretty surprising (and sad) that no one like Mac or Nic has bothered to look at this thing. After all, they would be masters at figuring out what to do with my "rules" and adding new ones.......


Please don't post comments like these. If Nic and/or Mac desire, they will look at the thread and/or comment on it.

Oh, okay. I was just saying that it's surprising that almost no one who cares about Walt Disney's characters (like I do) is replying to my thread.

Anyhow, what do you think of my "rules"?
PopKorn Kat  
#5 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2018 6:27:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
Wow, pretty surprising (and sad) that no one like Mac or Nic has bothered to look at this thing. After all, they would be masters at figuring out what to do with my "rules" and adding new ones.......


Please don't post comments like these. If Nic and/or Mac desire, they will look at the thread and/or comment on it.

Oh, okay. I was just saying that it's surprising that almost no one who cares about Walt Disney's characters (like I do) is replying to my thread.

Anyhow, what do you think of my "rules"?


I think you have a fairly solid set of rules!

As for suggestions for rules, I have several:
- Don’t be afraid to experiment with new ideas, but don’t stick with one gimmick for an entire show. (Looking specifically at the Rudish Mickey shorts; say what you want, but I feel Mickey and his friends have more potential than a series of one-shot gross-out cartoons.)
- Try adapting some stories from the comics! I wouldn’t mind seeing a “Duck Avenger” cartoon.
- Mickey can be more than just a sidekick for Goofy, Pluto, Donald, whoever.
- A fair amount of people see the original Mickey shorts as bland.
Quote:
-There are more characters to utilize than solely Mickey and Goofy; if Humphrey Bear and Ludwig von Drake, both of whom aren't as well-known as the "sensational six", could get their own cartoons without any of the other main characters, why not Minnie, Daisy, anyone else in Donald's family tree, Jose Carioca, or even Pete?

Minnie Mouse has headlined several cartoons in the Rudish Mickey shorts. There’s also “Minnie’s Bow-Toons”, though I couldn’t care less about the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse show and its spinoffs so I don’t know much about it.

As for Jose Carioca…well, there is a new Three Caballeros animated show that’s shown up in the Philippines…which should be regulated to its own thread.
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WaltWiz1901 on 7/1/2018(UTC)
WaltWiz1901  
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:25:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PopKorn Kat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
Wow, pretty surprising (and sad) that no one like Mac or Nic has bothered to look at this thing. After all, they would be masters at figuring out what to do with my "rules" and adding new ones.......


Please don't post comments like these. If Nic and/or Mac desire, they will look at the thread and/or comment on it.

Oh, okay. I was just saying that it's surprising that almost no one who cares about Walt Disney's characters (like I do) is replying to my thread.

Anyhow, what do you think of my "rules"?


I think you have a fairly solid set of rules!

As for suggestions for rules, I have several:
- Don’t be afraid to experiment with new ideas, but don’t stick with one gimmick for an entire show. (Looking specifically at the Rudish Mickey shorts; say what you want, but I feel Mickey and his friends have more potential than a series of one-shot gross-out cartoons.)
- Try adapting some stories from the comics! I wouldn’t mind seeing a “Duck Avenger” cartoon.
- Mickey can be more than just a sidekick for Goofy, Pluto, Donald, whoever.
- A fair amount of people see the original Mickey shorts as bland.
Quote:
-There are more characters to utilize than solely Mickey and Goofy; if Humphrey Bear and Ludwig von Drake, both of whom aren't as well-known as the "sensational six", could get their own cartoons without any of the other main characters, why not Minnie, Daisy, anyone else in Donald's family tree, Jose Carioca, or even Pete?

Minnie Mouse has headlined several cartoons in the Rudish Mickey shorts. There’s also “Minnie’s Bow-Toons”, though I couldn’t care less about the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse show and its spinoffs so I don’t know much about it.

As for Jose Carioca…well, there is a new Three Caballeros animated show that’s shown up in the Philippines…which should be regulated to its own thread.

Excellent ideas!

About the parts I've bolded:
1. Agreed.
2. This is what I've been thinking about doing for a long time. If the people behind the new shorts want to get themselves back on track, they should really take a cue from your "rule"!
3. Agreed again, especially with Pluto. When you consider the fact that he dominated a ton of Mickey's cartoons while Floyd Gottfredson was trying to make the latter an actual character again, wouldn't you agree that Mickey's theatrical output was much more of a waste than his comic career?
4. I get what you mean, but what I'm trying to get at here is that Minnie has never headlined a single "golden age" cartoon, or something emulating a "golden age" cartoon, yet, while more obscure characters like Humphrey and von Drake, while having only two and one short(s), respectively, have. (And yes, I'm just starting to know about Legend of the Three Caballeros)

Anyway, here's some more rules that instantly came to my mind:
-If you really want to make a new short fit in with a classic one, make sure the characters actually sound like themselves (I will say that Bret Iwan, Russi Taylor, Tony Anselmo, and Bill Farmer do a great job doing the "Fab Five's" voices in current works, but they still, for the most part, don't sound completely like they did in the original shorts - and don't get me started on how poor I think Mickey's alternate voice in the 2010's shorts sounds compared to Walt's original)
-If you really, really want to make a cartoon that could easily blend in with the originals, use your imagination (so to speak); how about a Mickey Mouse short produced in CinemaScope? What if the Walt Disney studio kept doing black-and-white cartoons rather than switching to color completely? What if *you* were able to get a previously-cancelled short back into production, like Plight of the Bumble Bee or The Talking Dog?
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PopKorn Kat on 7/1/2018(UTC)
nickramer  
#7 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:21:10 PM(UTC)
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Personally, I think the voices are close enough. It would be nearly impossible to find voices that sound exactly like the original shorts. Besides, Minnie had a string of voice actresses during the Golden Age.

As for my rule, it's this: Please get Fethry Duck in animation. He's long over-due for it. Fethry
And also get Dave Gerstein as executive consultant or producer on Mickey and Donald related projects.

I'd also suggest Chris Baily to do a Mickey show (based on the recent overseas comics as some even feel like "Kim Possible" in tone) or short again but he's busy with a new version of "New Scooby Doo Movies" ("Scooby Doo and Guess Who?") which unfortunately will be exclusive on the Boomerang streaming site. I trust him, by the way.

Edited by user Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:21:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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PopKorn Kat on 7/1/2018(UTC), WaltWiz1901 on 7/1/2018(UTC)
Mac  
#8 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2018 6:14:55 PM(UTC)
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I actually agree with most of the rules so far. ...And yet, to immediately contradict myself, I'm not sure If I agree there should be rules as strict rules can get in the way of the creative process. What if a creative had a clear idea for something new and wonderful for these characters we haven't thought of? Doing new things with the characters keeps them alive.

Also with the Disney characters, there are so many accepted versions. I like Donald in his cartoon shorts where Huey, Dewey and Louie are usually just a temporary responsibility, but I wouldn't want to be without the Carl Barks stories where they are very definitely adopted. I personally don't like Mickey stories which go too far with the science fiction, but while I may wish characters like Atomo Bleep-Bleep and Eega Beeva were never created, that's not really fair on the many people who enjoy them. So much comes down to taste.

I guess my "rules" would be
• Have a good knowledge of who these characters have been so far
• Have some respect for this
• Make something good that you believe in!

That said, when I have a bit more time, I might post a lit of rules that I would like to follow if in charge of a Mickey and co project.
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WaltWiz1901 on 7/1/2018(UTC), PopKorn Kat on 7/1/2018(UTC)
WaltWiz1901  
#9 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:48:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nickramer Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I think the voices are close enough. It would be nearly impossible to find voices that sound exactly like the original shorts. Besides, Minnie had a string of voice actresses during the Golden Age.

As for my rule, it's this: Please get Fethry Duck in animation. He's long over-due for it. Fethry
And also get Dave Gerstein as executive consultant or producer on Mickey and Donald related projects.

I'd also suggest Chris Baily to do a Mickey show (based on the recent overseas comics as some even feel like "Kim Possible" in tone) or short again but he's busy with a new version of "New Scooby Doo Movies" ("Scooby Doo and Guess Who?") which unfortunately will be exclusive on the Boomerang streaming site. I trust him, by the way.


Originally Posted by: Mac Go to Quoted Post
I actually agree with most of the rules so far. ...And yet, to immediately contradict myself, I'm not sure If I agree there should be rules as strict rules can get in the way of the creative process. What if a creative had a clear idea for something new and wonderful for these characters we haven't thought of? Doing new things with the characters keeps them alive.

Also with the Disney characters, there are so many accepted versions. I like Donald in his cartoon shorts where Huey, Dewey and Louie are usually just a temporary responsibility, but I wouldn't want to be without the Carl Barks stories where they are very definitely adopted. I personally don't like Mickey stories which go too far with the science fiction, but while I may wish characters like Atomo Bleep-Bleep and Eega Beeva were never created, that's not really fair on the many people who enjoy them. So much comes down to taste.

I guess my "rules" would be
Have a good knowledge of who these characters have been so far
• Have some respect for this
• Make something good that you believe in!

That said, when I have a bit more time, I might post a lit of rules that I would like to follow if in charge of a Mickey and co project.

Both of your rules sound great, but here are my thoughts on the stuff I bolded:
1. Although I said in my last post that I thought the current voice actors sound great as the "Fab Five", note that I said that "they don't sound completely like [the characters] did in the original shorts" (when I started on my now-on-hold project, I had decided that the majority of the characters would, intentionally, not be voiced by their usual actors to make them match better with who they were voiced by in the classic shorts). A compromise would be to use the voice actors in the article I listed if [someone] went with the "retro" designs or something similar, but use the current voices if doing something with the "modern" designs.
2. I had said something about using more characters than just the main characters; if there is someone who could benefit from an animated appearance, like Fethry as you mentioned, use him (but don't go too far with using characters like him as cameos or whatnot)!
3. Recently, I had posted something about this list of rules on Instagram. In the description, I said that David Gerstein was one of the few people who cared about the characters, so he certainly should become a part of whatever project the company does with them now.
4. I can easily accept someone doing something new with the "Fab Five", but they should try to do them right, too (the 2010's shorts sounded promising at first: Mickey and the gang in wacky adventures around the world. Now? It's a generic, Ren & Stimpy-style show with random references to almost every single thing that Disney owns thrown in to appease fans). I got it: how about we do let someone do something new with these characters, but if they don't completely know about them, we can show them some of these rules?
5. Agreed, all around.

Edited by user Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:52:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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DaffyTheGaucho on 7/2/2018(UTC)
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#10 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2018 12:42:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post

-When writing and drawing these shorts (or "episodes"; I was thinking of doing a television adaptation of the Floyd Gottfredson Mickey comics, but I haven't done much of it), make sure that you know who the characters are (for those of you who aren't quite sure, here's the Disney Wiki articles for Mickey, Donald, Goofy, and Pluto, undoubtedly the main stars of the show, to get you started; I would have put in links for the same site's articles for Minnie, Daisy, Pete, Chip n' Dale, etc., but I don't have a lot of time right now)
-If you're going to do a storyline for a "Mickey Mouse" cartoon or episode and you place Pluto in it, do not make him take over the entire short/episode - Mickey is the main focus, of course
-There are more characters to utilize than solely Mickey and Goofy; if Humphrey Bear and Ludwig von Drake, both of whom aren't as well-known as the "sensational six", could get their own cartoons without any of the other main characters, why not Minnie, Daisy, anyone else in Donald's family tree, Jose Carioca, or even Pete?
-Mickey should be, at best, given some "traction" in most of his appearances without being relegated to a bland, almost lifeless figure
-Don't condense or overdo Donald and Goofy's personalities; they can, respectively, lose their temper and be a dim-witted goof sometime, but they don't need to do such all the time or be dumbed down, so to speak
-If you're going to use gross-out humor, keep it to a minimum (and more importantly, keep it subtle)
-There doesn't need to be a reference to almost any other piece of Walt or post-Walt Disney work in all of the shorts/episodes
-If you want to design the characters specifically for these cartoons, make sure they actually look like themselves and aren't straying away from such, like the 2010's shorts and Clubhouse

I remember some Golden Age cartoons which despite being credited as being "Mickey Mouse" ones (and no, I am not talking about the Pluto cartoons later reissued as Mickeys), have Pluto as the central part. That was a very big mistake they did, and if I ever to work on Disney, I will correct this mistake immediately. Besides, they are called "MICKEY MOUSE" cartoons for a reason.

And about the lesser-known charcaters getting their own shorts... I don't think this would always work, especially since not everyone may know about them.

And yeah, the gross-out humor is TOXIC and HORRIBLE!! I recommend not to use it AT ALL!!

Also the thing with Donald and Goofy, their characters are already good the way they normally are. Don't need to uselessly exxagerate with them.

And what do you mean with "Mickey being given some traction"?

The references and cameos of other Disney properties, while they are nice and special, don't need to be used a lot.
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WaltWiz1901 on 7/2/2018(UTC)
WaltWiz1901  
#11 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2018 2:02:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DaffyTheGaucho Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post

-When writing and drawing these shorts (or "episodes"; I was thinking of doing a television adaptation of the Floyd Gottfredson Mickey comics, but I haven't done much of it), make sure that you know who the characters are (for those of you who aren't quite sure, here's the Disney Wiki articles for Mickey, Donald, Goofy, and Pluto, undoubtedly the main stars of the show, to get you started; I would have put in links for the same site's articles for Minnie, Daisy, Pete, Chip n' Dale, etc., but I don't have a lot of time right now)
-If you're going to do a storyline for a "Mickey Mouse" cartoon or episode and you place Pluto in it, do not make him take over the entire short/episode - Mickey is the main focus, of course
-There are more characters to utilize than solely Mickey and Goofy; if Humphrey Bear and Ludwig von Drake, both of whom aren't as well-known as the "sensational six", could get their own cartoons without any of the other main characters, why not Minnie, Daisy, anyone else in Donald's family tree, Jose Carioca, or even Pete?
-Mickey should be, at best, given some "traction" in most of his appearances without being relegated to a bland, almost lifeless figure
-Don't condense or overdo Donald and Goofy's personalities; they can, respectively, lose their temper and be a dim-witted goof sometime, but they don't need to do such all the time or be dumbed down, so to speak
-If you're going to use gross-out humor, keep it to a minimum (and more importantly, keep it subtle)
-There doesn't need to be a reference to almost any other piece of Walt or post-Walt Disney work in all of the shorts/episodes
-If you want to design the characters specifically for these cartoons, make sure they actually look like themselves and aren't straying away from such, like the 2010's shorts and Clubhouse

I remember some Golden Age cartoons which despite being credited as being "Mickey Mouse" ones (and no, I am not talking about the Pluto cartoons later reissued as Mickeys), have Pluto as the central part. That was a very big mistake they did, and if I ever to work on Disney, I will correct this mistake immediately. Besides, they are called "MICKEY MOUSE" cartoons for a reason.

And about the lesser-known charcaters getting their own shorts... I don't think this would always work, especially since not everyone may know about them.

And yeah, the gross-out humor is TOXIC and HORRIBLE!! I recommend not to use it AT ALL!!

Also the thing with Donald and Goofy, their characters are already good the way they normally are. Don't need to uselessly exxagerate with them.

And what do you mean with "Mickey being given some traction"?

The references and cameos of other Disney properties, while they are nice and special, don't need to be used a lot.

About "the Plutos reissued as Mickeys", the only one I could think of was Pluto's Party (it has his theme over the opening credits, and it has his name in the title, but the reissue titles have Mickey's headshot preceding the credits and numerous sources identify it as a Mickey cartoon as a result; Pluto's Christmas Tree was indeed released as a "Mickey" originally, as was Pluto and the Armadillo). Anyways, if you were to make a short where Mickey and Pluto are the main characters, I highly suggest focusing more on the character who's headlining the cartoon, not the other way around.

Secondly, using a lesser-known character to headline a short should be done in moderation, not all the time (there's some who have potential to do so, and some who don't). That's what I forgot to point out.

Thirdly, I highly agree with you on the gross-out humor; as a matter of fact, upon looking at some of the sketches made for the new shorts on Instagram, I got so upset to the point where I derided one of them for "desecrating" Mickey's image. Now, I don't even want to know about what gags they're placing in them nowadays, which is sad as the shorts had lots of potential at the beginning.

I also agree with you on Donald and Goofy's personalities; they can be used correctly and just as much as in the original cartoons, but they can do a lot more than that (and Goofy doesn't have to be a complete moron, like in the 2010's shorts). Your thing about them being fine the way they already are is ace.

And about Mickey "being given some traction", I actually meant "leverage". A member on the former Golden Age Cartoons forum easily sums up how he can - and should - be used:
Mr. Semaj wrote:
In order to be a sustainable character, Mickey should be given some leverage in his own stories. He can be a more assertive character than just being the clueless owner, and on the other spectrum, without pulling a gun on his friends.

Edited by user Monday, July 2, 2018 2:03:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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PopKorn Kat on 7/2/2018(UTC)
nickramer  
#12 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2018 11:45:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 Go to Quoted Post
2. I had said something about using more characters than just the main characters; if there is someone who could benefit from an animated appearance, like Fethry as you mentioned, use him (but don't go too far with using characters like him as cameos or whatnot)!
3. Recently, I had posted something about this list of rules on Instagram. In the description, I said that David Gerstein was one of the few people who cared about the characters, so he certainly should become a part of whatever project the company does with them now.
4. I can easily accept someone doing something new with the "Fab Five", but they should try to do them right, too (the 2010's shorts sounded promising at first: Mickey and the gang in wacky adventures around the world. Now? It's a generic, Ren & Stimpy-style show with random references to almost every single thing that Disney owns thrown in to appease fans). I got it: how about we do let someone do something new with these characters, but if they don't completely know about them, we can show them some of these rules?
5. Agreed, all around.


Of Fethry, I was thinking maybe having a guest appearance on another show. And no, I was never thinking of a cameo (I think that happened before in an overseas intro to a Disney special).

Also, a bit off-topic, but I really think Paul should consider moving on and maybe do a new version of his father creation, Rainbow Brite. Maybe do something like that ponies show (and no, I don't watch that).

Edited by user Monday, July 2, 2018 8:54:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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WaltWiz1901 on 7/3/2018(UTC)
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