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speedy fast  
#1 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2017 12:50:53 PM(UTC)
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There's a few things I've been wondering about the "dubbed versions" of the various pre-1948 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies. Not sure whether anybody knows the answers, but here goes/

One, did Turner make dubbed versions of ALL of the cartoons that Turner had the rights to, including the "censored eleven" and other shorts that weren't likely to air again anytime soon (like the Inki cartoons and various World War II cartoons)? Hmm, I wonder if the "dubbed version" copyright notice appears on Herr Meets Hare and Russian Rhapsody when they were part of Toonheads: The Wartime Cartoons.

Two, in cases where scenes were cut for broadcasts, were these scenes included when the "dubbed versions" were made and then cut, or were they cut from the copies before the dubbed versions were made? I know that there's been a few DVD releases that include the dubbed version of I Taw a Putty Tat, cutting out the scene where Sylvester does a Rochester impression. But was that cut from the dubbed version or could that release have used an off-the-shelf broadcast transfer that happened to be the dubbed version (or could it have been on the copy used and actually cut from the DVDs)? And yes, I know that alterations from the dubbed versions of The Heckling Hare and The Old Grey Hare remain on the home video releases of those dubbed versions (though those alterations seem small compared to other scenes). I wonder if the "dubbed versions" appear on any of the uncut cartoons shown on The Bob Clampett Show.

And three, am I right that the dubbed versions had some restoration work done to them, as opposed to just being new video transfers with newly-created foreign soundtracks and the "that's all, folks!" end card replaced and a "dubbed version" copyright notice added?
DGM  
#2 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:01:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: speedy fast Go to Quoted Post

One, did Turner make dubbed versions of ALL of the cartoons that Turner had the rights to, including the "censored eleven" and other shorts that weren't likely to air again anytime soon (like the Inki cartoons and various World War II cartoons)?


I can't say anything about war-themed cartoons, maybe the tamer ones like "Falling Hare" did get a dubbed version. However, in the Elmer Fudd cartoon "Good Night Elmer" there is no dialogue, and it was the only one that aired on Boomerang Europe without the "dubbed" message and with its original "That's All Folks" card. I guess when there was no dialog, there was no need to create a voiceless background track (which for me was the basic idea of the "dubbed" thing).

Quote:

Two, in cases where scenes were cut for broadcasts, were these scenes included when the "dubbed versions" were made and then cut, or were they cut from the copies before the dubbed versions were made?


The dubbed print of "I Taw a Putty Tat" that aired in Europe had the cut - it seems to be like that everywhere, so it was probably edited on the master. The suicide gag from Hare Ribbin' was not cut, however. "Fresh Hare" also used to air several years ago as well, without cuts (though they don't show it any more, I think). We got the the "corrected" dubbed version of "The Old Grey Hare" with the shaking end card.

Quote:

And three, am I right that the dubbed versions had some restoration work done to them, as opposed to just being new video transfers with newly-created foreign soundtracks and the "that's all, folks!" end card replaced and a "dubbed version" copyright notice added?


There seem to be several batches of transfers in the dubbed versions, not sure when they were done. Some cartoons have a color border around the opening sequence, others do not. I can't see any special restoration work done for them, some prints they used were just much better than others, while other cartoons like "Fair and Worm-er" even have splices that skip a second or two of the dialog.

Edited by user Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:03:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cool_Cat  
#3 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:34:50 PM(UTC)
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Those versions also exist without the altered card. The altered card actually refers to the new music/effects track they had to make using cues from late 50s/early 60s shorts because until 1949 WB didn't save the original score with sound effects.

Those versions were made around the time Turner Entertainment remastered their whole cartoon library. I'm pretty sure the same transfers of shorts like I Taw a Putty Tat do exist without the cuts, even though I've never seen them. Usually these transfers made in the early/mid 90s were a great improvement over the old faded ones appearing on previous TV airings and home media releases, even though they were made before the merge so they didn't have access to the original negatives and some of the shorts kinda got "screwed up" like the splice cuts in Fair and Worm-er.

In the UK where there were no dubs CN/Boomerang used to air some of these transfers without the altered card.

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The last images come from a recording I took 3 days ago from an Italian channel, where the dub here uses the "dubbed version" m/e track.

And also, WB also made "dubbed version" tracks for the post 48 shorts starting in 1997 and later. Some were made specifically for VHS releases around Europe. This time though they weren't lazy enough to put a fake title card just to save some time.

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EDIT: I don't think the Censored 11 got a remaster in the 90s because in the various Behind the Tunes special features they always used old masters for those shorts. I noticed in many of the shorts they added some color correction and (unfortunately) DVNRed a few of them (like Ain't that Ducky, Along Came Daffy, etc)

Edited by user Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:37:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

speedy fast  
#4 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2017 10:03:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DGM Go to Quoted Post

I can't say anything about war-themed cartoons, maybe the tamer ones like "Falling Hare" did get a dubbed version.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that one and Draftee Daffy got dubbed versions (plus cartoons that tend to be considered wartime that I don't really think of as wartime cartoons, like Little Red Riding Rabbit and Super Rabbit). I was really just referring to the offensive World War II-themed cartoons that very likely weren't going to be broadcast again anytime soon.
DGM  
#5 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2017 10:25:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cool_Cat Go to Quoted Post
In the UK where there were no dubs CN/Boomerang used to air some of these transfers without the altered card.


I always suspected that these were around somewhere. When i found that Warner Bros. were using copies with the "dubbed" ending card as bonus features, I wondered why they couldn't get any clear print from their video archives. Maybe they had faster access to the "dubbed" version because CN used the Spanish translation?
speedy fast  
#6 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2017 10:31:52 PM(UTC)
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It's amazing that, despite selling off the cartoons, Warner Bros. always kept the negatives (then again, I know that Disney doesn't archive its acquired properties, so various companies that sold their stuff to Disney still have master tapes and negatives and such in storage). I wonder if Turner ever tried to arrange for Warner Bros. to send the negatives.
Cool_Cat  
#7 Posted : Monday, February 6, 2017 2:43:37 AM(UTC)
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All I can say is many times WB doesn't search enough in the archives, considering how they couldn't even get done right the first two volumes of the Tom and Jerry Spotlight Collection by using the edited versions instead of the clear ones of the exact same print.
speedy fast  
#8 Posted : Monday, February 6, 2017 12:12:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cool_Cat Go to Quoted Post
All I can say is many times WB doesn't search enough in the archives, considering how they couldn't even get done right the first two volumes of the Tom and Jerry Spotlight Collection by using the edited versions instead of the clear ones of the exact same print.


Warner Bros. has occasionally released edited Tom and Jerry cartoons on DVD, but it seems WB always took special care of the Looney Tunes shorts on home video (though they sometimes use edited copies as bonus features.... and I think Invasion of the Bunny Snatchers was purposely edited on the 2003 Space Jam DVD, as I don't think it's ever been edited on television. It's interesting how the Yosemite Sam scenes were reportedly cut for time allotment - why not just leave out the whole short, or leave out one of the other bonus shorts, or leave out one of the bonus specials?). Yeah, if it was altered for a reissue, it remained that way on home video for a long time, but in the age of DVD and Blu-Ray, it seems like almost everything cut or altered for reissues (outside of many of the original title sequences) has been restored (the only exception I know of being scenes cut from the reissue of You're an Education).
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#9 Posted : Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:03:04 PM(UTC)
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Turner made "dubbed versions" of at least some of the Harman-Ising Merrie Melodies. Unfortunately they put the end titles from the redrawn versions (with the color turned off) on the B & W versions too. When my family first got Cartoon Network in January 1994, the Harman-Ising Merrie Melodies that aired on Late Night Black & White still had their original end titles, but 2 or 3 years later they switched to the "dubbed versions".
speedy fast  
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 11, 2017 11:19:16 PM(UTC)
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I wonder how many closing sequences were tranferred in the dubbed versions. Many sources say that they only did the "That's all, folks!" once and copied it over to every cartoon, and I believe that (I wonder if they considered doing that for the opening sequences), but I know that many of the early Merrie Melodies "so long, folks!" tags were in the dubbed versions, as was Bugs coming out of the drums to say "and that's the end!" And I want to say that Porky coming out of the drums was in the dubbed versions as well, but I can't remember for sure.
Bobby Bickert  
#11 Posted : Sunday, February 12, 2017 10:59:15 PM(UTC)
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"The Major Lied 'til Dawn" has a special end title, so I wonder whether or not Turner made a "dubbed version" of it? (I suppose it's also possible that Turner yanked it from circulation because of the "un-PC" content.)
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